Jenn: It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is. I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

And we're leaning into that truth here with the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and practical applications. Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours. This is the lo and behold podcast.

I am back this week with another birth story, and if you were here with me last week, you'd know that I used that first podcast episode as a chance to share my own first birth story and kind of give you guys an idea of who I am, where I'm coming from, where this passion came from, what my story is, what's brought me to this place.

This week, I'm actually am going to share another birth story with you. It's not mine. It's actually my older sister's. And the reason I want to tuck her story right here at the front of all of this as well is because Jen's birth story happened to be a birth that I attended. I was there as sister, but I was also actually on the clock working as a nurse and that specific birth.

My precious niece, she was actually the first baby that I saw be born. As a registered nurse, I was a brand new grad. I was in training and my sister came into the hospital I worked at in labor and I ended up stepping into the room, getting to be there. Not as a nurse. I was technically not working, but I was working.

People and help people do this. So this conversation today, again, is with my older sister Jen,

so, Jen, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself first and then we'll keep going.

Jenn: Hi, my name's Jen. I am wife of Michael, I'm the mother of my daughter named Reese, who is 12 years old now. So, when Laura asked me to come on and talk about my birth story, my first thought was, that was so long ago.

But it is funny and there are pieces of it that, I can recall in a heartbeat, and so excited to share it with you today.

Lo: Yeah, I like that Jen said that. It's funny because we die laughing when we talk about this birth story and it's probably, you guys know stuff is more funny when it's you, right?

Okay, so let's just get started at the beginning. Jen, just tell us about pregnancy, wanting to get pregnant, all of that jazz.

Jenn: I. Yeah. So my husband Michael and I had been married for, five years at this point, and I felt like everyone in my group of friends was pregnant or had already gotten pregnant and had babies.

And I was really ready for that. My husband wasn't. And, it took a while for us to get to a space, and I won't even say that he was ready. When we did have our daughter, but it, he was more ready than if we had jumped into it when my heart was ready. And so. As these things go, it was not as easy as I had hoped.

And so, I'm gonna laugh at this and I am gonna preface, Laura knows this. I love my husband dearly. We've been married almost 20 years. We are also the two most different people you will ever meet. I can attest

Lo: to this. I love him dearly as well, but

Jenn: we are, are very different. Very different. I'm excited and joyful and, I'm an Enneagram too and I have big feelings about everything.

And so I go to our bedroom and I'm like, Michael. Michael wake up. He's like, what? And I'm like, look, we're pregnant. And I swear to God, I kid you not. He would verify if he was here. He looked at me and he said, can we talk about this later? And he rolled over and went back to bed and. I was so angry, but also like my husband is well into his forties and he could sleep until 11 o'clock on any given Saturday.

Still, like I should have known that like an early morning conversation that was, shouldn't have been met with so much joy for me, just was not gonna land for him. So, I left that pregnancy test on his counter next to his toothbrush and I went to work, and, you know, got home, had some hurt feelings, worked through it.

We were just a couple days shy of 40 weeks, when she came. And, yeah, when it was time for her to come, I. Man, you just can't prepare, right? You read the books, you take the classes, you listen to the things, and, then you drive to the hospital and like your whole world changes just like that.

Lo: Remind me if you took classes or not.

I can't remember.

Jenn: Well,

no we didn't.

That husband who I love dearly, does not maybe operate under the same idea of like knowledge as power. And education, you know, makes things feel easier and more smooth and he. I, this is not a husband bashing moment by any means, but my husband was disgusted by pregnancy also.

And I mean, I thought it was miraculous. I'm like that lady who wants to touch every pregnant belly, like I'm an elevator and you're pregnant. I'm like, oh my God, you look so can I touch it? Like I just am like Laura, like Laura's enamored with birth and I'm so enamored with like that process and like the amazing ability of our bodies to like do this.

And so he was disgusted by all things and he's super smart. Like. Graduate degree, like he's brilliant. But like did not want any knowledge about this part of life. And so, no, we went to the hospital. I don't think he read a, I read like every book that like existed under the sun, had all my friends who had already had babies, had talked to all of them.

He had negative 10 knowledge going into, birth and pregnancy. And I think he may have regretted that, when the time came, honestly.

Lo: I think it's important to interject here. Obviously you all know that I teach and I always am saying get your partners involved. Get your partners involved, get your partners involved.

Can we get you to do a little more here? But I think it's important to, to realize that if the person helping you have your baby is maybe like my brother-in-law, they're not the only one like that. They're not the only one being obstinate trying to be frustrating, annoying, refusing. Like sometimes they're just built that way, designed that way.

Can we lean into that? Can we change that? Can we try to get them on board more? Should we, yes. But you are not the only one. If you're going through this, or if your story sounds a little like Jen's like, I just want you to hear that. Like not every partner's just gonna show up and wanna catch the baby.

Jenn: something I think is interesting about that is, while he did not wanna, like, participate in any education or like preparedness per se, he also was really adamant that he wanted to do it alone.

He didn't want my mom to come, for the birth. He did not want Laura to be there. Laura was a nurse. I'm sure we'll get into this at the hospital like where we delivered Reese. But he did not want her, he didn't want her to be there. Like, for him it was really important that like he did it and that like he, he knew that if my mom was there or if Laura was there, that he would back off and let them do the things, because he was gonna be uncomfortable and it'd be easier to let them do it.

And so I appreciate that. Like he knew himself enough to say like, Hey, I think. Everyone needs to be gone. It'd just be you and me when we have Reese so that I can learn. And so that I have to like rise to that occasion. Right. So,

Lo: yeah. Which, I mean, I do think he knew himself well enough to know that.

And so when she came in, and yes, I was working that night. I was still training as a postpartum nurse, so my hospital started us as postpartum nurses. Once we got comfortable taking care of mom, baby couplets, then they started training us fully for labor as well. So when Jen came in. I was not her labor nurse.

Jenn: And it was your last shift before you had like a few days off too, I remember. Like,

Lo: I think so, yes. 'cause I remember going home and sleeping, but then you guys came home and it was like nice to be. Maybe that wasn't nice for you. I don't know. I was home with their sweet baby in them, but anyway. Okay. So yes, that brings us up to basically.

Hospital later starting, or what happened? I'm sure you can Yeah. Remember some of those pre details too of getting to the hospital and why?

Jenn: Yes. I think one of the things that I remember most vividly is the drive we took to the hospital, from our house, which was like, I don't even know, five minutes max, but.

There was this very, clear feeling to Michael and I that like, this was the last time it was gonna just be us. And I, that gives me goosebumps still and I'm, oh, that almost makes me wanna cry. But I just remember this very vivid, like, oh, we've had a good run of Michael and Jen, and now we're about to be like Michael, Jen and Reese, like a family.

So I, that's just one of those things that has like stuck with me, you know, 12 years later I still can like go right back to that, that scene. So we get to the hospital and, I guess I. I went to triage earlier in the day because you did. I like, I was like, that's a long time ago. I think I was, I was wondering if you were gonna remember this

Lo: part.

Because I remember this part. I was bleeding a little

Jenn: bit. Yeah. And so we went to triage. They monitored me or whatever, and was like, contractions weren't really happening. I, I wasn't dilated at all. Maybe a one. And they were like, nah, you're like, go home, rest. Like, not, it's not time yet, you know? And I was like, okay.

And now like, you know, this is something we wanna monitor. And so that is how we ended up like coming back to the hospital. Is that right?

Lo: Yeah, I was at work, so it must have been like. 7, 8, 9, I think. Yeah. 'cause I remember you texting and saying, Hey, I'm coming back in.

Jenn: Yep.

Lo: Yeah. After you'd spoken to the, you know, the triage nurse or whoever.

So, yeah,

Jenn: so we get to the hospital, they put us in a room, but again, I still wasn't really dilated or anything. And, like wasn't really feeling contractions. Like I felt fine, I was just bleeding pretty significantly. And so, they told us to get a good night's sleep. They gave me. Ambien to sleep, I think.

Michael's trying to sleep. My husband loves sleep so much, so he is like on the crinkly bed, you know that they pull out the little couch bed and we are lying there. It's middle of the night and my water breaks and I. I, it was the loudest sound I've ever heard in my life, but I, it sounded like a gunshot.

It was like, it was, and I know some people like, you don't hear anything. Mine like exploded. And my husband shot up outta bed and his eyes were like big as saucers and he was like, whoa, is that, and I was like, oh, I think my water just broke. And he was like, okay. And he like runs out of the little, our little room out into the hallway.

And thankfully Laura was like sitting at the desk charting or something. And Laura, do you wanna tell this part because I love when you tell. What he looked like when he came. Yeah, I

And actually, I've seen a lot of dads come out of rooms looking like that, but I think he didn't even have the words. It was like, or water. I think her water broke. Like he didn't know. And everyone around me, my preceptor, I remember her sitting next to me and it was like, okay, we'll be right in.

You know, everyone, it's kind of that whole, alright, you know. That's okay. It's very normal, but you forget. You don't, no one was rude. He's like, it's an emergency. Him. This is the biggest deal in the entire world. Right? And then all of us were like, great. Okay. Although, I will say the plan was to have Jen.

Sleep overnight. So what they had thought was that she was having a little bit of an abruption, which is when the placenta kind of starts to separate from the uterine wall too soon, right? It's not supposed to happen until after birth, and so it can cause some bleeding. This was not significant. It was not a need for immediate delivery, but that was why they thought, Hey, well when your OB gets here in the morning, we'll start inducing you 'cause you are abrupting a little bit it looks like.

It really is happening now too. And so Jen obviously had just taken these sleeping pills and then her water breaks and so it wasn't exactly what was supposed to happen, which that's birth right. So anyways, you can keep going.

Jenn: So water broke, they came in, cleaned me up 'cause like my water broke like a fricking river, like the real grande came out and, got cleaned up.

And then you, it's, I mean, labor. Generally it's like a lot of like, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. And so it's like, okay, my water broke, but still like, didn't really have significant contractions, wasn't really feeling any pain. And so like, okay, go ahead and like, try and rest some more, you know?

So I called the nurse and she was like, you're not supposed to go to the bath. Like I wasn't supposed to go poop on my own, whatever. All of these things that I didn't take any birth classes, I just was taking care of my business. And so that was like my transition and like from that moment on, it was the most like.

To me, it was so rapid fire and so quick, like I went from no contractions feeling a hundred percent fine really to being like, oh, we're gonna have a baby. Like this is really happening. So I, I had wanted an epidural, and I'll say again, I'm old. I had my baby a long time ago and like, I didn't have like a real birth plan.

I wasn't like tied fast and loose to like not having an epidural or having an epidural or delivering in a bathtub or standing, like I didn't care. I had no plan. And so I was like, that's why there's nurse. They're gonna tell me what to do and I'm just gonna do what they tell me. Right. Not the first woman to walk into that space with that intention, I'm sure.

Mindset. And so I get back in bed, I labored in bed the whole time, and I had. The dearest labor and delivery nurse, her name was Lindsay. I still, I would, I recognize her on the street still to this day. And she was gonna be like my Sherpa, like guiding me through, contractions and like I. This is where it's going to get good guys how to breathe.

Because literally, I didn't take Lamaze classes. I don't think they call 'em that anymore, but whatever you guys call them now, that's what my brain remembers, the math. I didn't take those. My sister

Lo: knows so much about what I do, guys,

Jenn: you know? Just kidding. I only had one baby also. I didn't get law practice at this.

I know, I thought we shouldn't say it. No. He, came in to give me my epidural and he had been asleep because it's nighttime, like their work, they're on call or whatever, you know. And Michael tells it. I didn't see it, but Michael tells it. He walked in and he is like, like big yawn, like just waking himself up.

Wa as he walks in my room and then. Like that needle, apparently I didn't see it again, but apparently it's pretty big and you know, so Michael was like, this guy's going to put that needle in. My wife's back. Like, he's not even awake. What's happening here? So. Thankfully I'm oblivious to this 'cause like I'm just in my own body at this point, you know, and so get my epidural like, not a big deal.

Lo: You know, I don't fully remember when I was allowed to come in 'cause things changed and then you guys decided, oh, I remember decided.

So maybe you can tell that part. I just know that it was so quick. Right? And so like she said, you went from, the assumption was not really dilated to water broke. Okay. That means something's happening and then. All of a sudden it was like, she's shaking, she's pooping. Like these are signs of transition for a first time mother.

We're talking about like an hour has transpired, you know? And so I think it was more, I don't know how dilated you were, but it was clear we're not gonna make it till morning for the doctor to get here, type thing. Like something's, something's happening really fast here. And so I don't know if you remember.

Yeah. So when you decided like, I could come in or. Ish was getting real or whatever. So I

So they had to like call whoever was on call, which course was not my doctor. 'cause that's the way all it seems to work. Right. And, lindsay, my nurse is like getting me set up in bed to push and you know, they pull your knees up like this again. Very like OG style birth, I feel like, like pull your knees up to your chest and your husband holds one.

And I think that is when my husband was like, actually didn't sign up for this. I'm out. Can Laura come in and help us out here? Nope. For the audience, she's

Lo: throwing up peace signs. 'cause her husband peaced out.

Jenn: Bye. Yeah. I think that was like more of any of my body he ever wanted to like be up close and personal with.

He did not want to, he was afraid. I think he was afraid. He, I really think he was afraid he would pass out. And I did not want that to be his story. And so at this point they let, I'm like, yes, Laura, like, we're, yes, Laura can come in. 'cause they were like really respectful of our privacy. Like Laura wasn't my nurse, they knew she was my sister, but like it was my choice.

It comes time to push and I don't know how to, I don't understand how to breathe. This is, we're gonna laugh a lot here. I could not like you. Everything's happening so fast and you feel panicky and like there, all this is changing in your body and people are talking to you and there's so much going on around you.

And so Lindsay is. I don't even know if I can remember how to do it now, to be really honest with you. But Lindsay's telling me how to breathe, like don't hold in a breath and then push like bear down and push, right? And I was like, okay. I'm like shaking my head like, yes, yes, I understand. I got it. And then she'd be like, okay, contraction.

And she's like, okay, push. And I'd breathe in big, big breath and I'd just blow it all out, like over and over. And I swear, I'm sure Lindsay was like. What, like out of, I was out of my mind. Okay. I just didn't, I

Lo: just, but here's actually the funny part too is there's the type of pushing that's coach, pushing, guided, pushing, like what you're talking about.

Like hold your breath, you know, and push and bear down. And there actually is the other, which is what you were doing. Not, I would say you weren't doing it effectively, but it is, it's like breathing your baby down. Now, could you have gotten to there where you were? Yeah. Like. That's what, if we're teaching that type of breathing, it is, it's like, no, you breathe them out.

You actually do like horse lips. Breathing is a real, it's a real breathing style. It was above my time. Look at you. You were, so I think it's funny because at the time it was hilarious. I feel like even in that moment, you, you somehow knew that you weren't doing anything effective. You also were doing , a breathing pushing style that a lot of people wanna try.

Jenn: isn't that funny how our bodies know? Yes. Like even with no like. Even if it wasn't what I was supposed to do or like you breathing, Lindsay was coaching me to do like my body on some level knew like that this will make breathe.

You're this ion, this will work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if the technique was questionable, So. I've got Laura on one knee. I've got Lindsay on the other knee, and my husband is hovering really kind of like in the hallway outside the door. And I remember the charge nurse, it was my preceptor, her name, but I can see yeah.

Yeah, your preceptor and I vividly remember her. Grabbing Michael and like pushing him into the room and be like, your daughter is going to be born. Like, you need to get in there. And he still, he was like ahead of the bed guy, like, he's back here. He doesn't wanna be down here. So like, she pushed him in and I'm glad he did.

Like, so everything just like, whew. She came out so quick. And, Michael did not wanna catch her. Michael did not catch her. They did ask him to cut the umbilical cord, which I do believe he ended up doing, but not without like great dismay. I think, he would've chosen not to, but I perhaps he felt a little pressure, which good for him.

So he did cut our umbilical cord, you know, now 12 years later, I've been like, oh, don't cut that umbilical cord. Let her stay here for an hour. But we didn't know those things then. And so, cut the cord. She, and, you know, then you're all of a sudden you're a family of three. Like we had talked like just in like a breath, you go from Jen and Michael to like, oh, like there's three of us now.

And I, it was not like that epidural had not really kicked in. So like when she went to stitch me up, I so clearly remember her like going to stitch my tear and being like, I can feel that. And the doctor saying, no, you can't. You had an epidural. And I was like, yes, I can. Like, I can feel that. And so then they had to, you know.

Is it Novocaine? It's the same as a dentist, probably.

Lo: Lidocaine, that's what we were using. Lidocaine. That sounds better. Yeah.

Jenn: Yeah. So they, you know, so then I get a, and I was able to like, get up out of bed and go to the bathroom and stuff. There was no like, long, like I was not immobile, by any means.

Lo: Well, I just think a lot about our mom had. There's three of us girls. I have a younger sister as well.

We have a younger sister as well, and my mom had babies very well, if that's the right vocabulary to use. She had massive babies. We were all almost 10 pounds and she. I say that especially, 'cause she was like five four, right? And so she was little, she was a very tiny person, but she had all of us unmedicated really fast, like in theory, easy labors.

But I mean, they did a number on her too. And she had episiotomies and all of that, like they did back in the eighties. But I do, I felt like Jen was the first of us to have kids. And I felt like, looking back, reflecting, thinking your birth. Was probably similar to moms, right? Like for whatever reason you had genetics like mom, where your body was just made to birth babies.

Typically, first babies don't come that fast, but we do need to be prepared for what are we gonna do if it goes that quick, or what choices do we wanna make? Or like, what if I don't have six hours of contractions before I decide about my epidural? You know? And so I think if anything for you, it was. It was almost nice though that you didn't have this big, massive plan in your head.

'cause your body was like, no, no, no, no, no time for that. We're just having this baby. So it's such a weird, funky balance of these are the ways I hope it will go. These are the way the book says, it'll go. These are the ways it went. 'cause my body was in charge, you know? So I just remember thinking like, Ooh, Jen's built to have babies like Mom is.

Jenn: So I totally, I would agree with that. And I look back now and like women talk about contractions and how painful they are.

I couldn't tell you what a contraction felt like it all was. So like, I don't remember. Like a pain like that. The belly getting rock hard. Like every, like my body wanted to push. Oh, I remember. The doctor wasn't here yet and they told me not to push yet. Like, like, wait, wait. There's no doctor, like, don't push and like when your body is ready to push and expel that baby, there was no, you could cross my legs all you want.

Like my body is doing, I don't have to tell my body to push like this is happening. And I was. I mean, the doctor wasn't even gowned up. She was like in a sweatshirt and Well, she was sleeping

Lo: too, so they come in and put that blue gown on, but I don't, yeah, she was still in her sweatshirt.

Yeah, I remember who it was.

Lo: she was a couple days early. Yeah. But that's true what you said though.

Like we laugh about how, you know, quote unquote badly, you were breathing, but your body just kind of was delivering your baby, which is a real thing. Totally. You know, there's that fetal ejection reflex, there's some different Ferguson reflex, these things that kick in. You can't stop those. And obviously clinically, a lot of times we say, Hey, hang on.

The provider's not here, but. I mean, I don't really love that in general. And also you can't, like your body was gonna pop that baby girl out no matter what. Can't stop nature. We gave you Ambien, we weren't planning on it. Like, didn't matter, you know, it was gonna happen. Yeah. Which is awesome. I mean, it's, it's actually really beautiful to see all that happening underneath, you know, the clinical part or whatever else was going on.

So, yep. Okay. What about, going into postpartum, any little things about, you know, breastfeeding for the first time or postpartum, that kind of stuff?

Yeah, as a nurse, more than I did as a mom, and I was the one who they just gave a baby to. And, I, but I, breastfeeding was really important to me. Something that I really like, looked forward to and wanted to do. And so, I. I feel like my milk was slow to come in. I remember this, but my boobs were huge when they did.

I was so engorged. They were so big and so painful. And then Reese. I feel like she took to nursing pretty easy. It was painful. Like I'm sure our latch wasn't perfect in the beginning. I can remember like, like getting terrible scabs, like on my nipples. Oh, so painful. I, my toes still curl right this minute.

But we, I'm really grateful we were able to nurse until she quit. She quit on me at 14 months and I was so sad. But she was a, she was really distracted, nurser, and she finally just was like, I'm too busy. I don't wanna do this anymore. And so she, she was done just like that one day, like, no. Pomp and circumstance.

She just decided I'm not doing this anymore. But that was fine postpartum. I worked full-time before we had Reese and so I had, you know, 90 days of FMLA or whatever, post her birth. And so my husband, works in college athletics. He, pretty much has our whole marriage and of course got pregnant and had a baby during football season, which is.

I know you know it. And he's holding her like so far away from his body. It's like not cradled against his chest. He's got her in his arms and he looks so young. Number one. It was a long time ago. And so like scared, but also like the sweetest look at his face too, is he like held his little daughter, but also like no idea like what to do or how to do any of it.

And so he was supposed to be off of work. For a week. But he ended up wanting to go to back to work like on day three after we got home. 'cause he was like, I'm bored. There's nothing for me to do here. Like, I just would rather go to work. Which tracks were like our whole life. So he went back to work and he actually did, I think, do you remember when we left?

So originally he wanted like a week of just us at home without my mom. And you were gonna stay at Kelvin's, I think, to like give us that time. Actually, I remem you were not gonna stay at home. And he just, I think it was like the first day we were at home, he is like, so your mom can come if you want.

Right. So I had this beautiful cradle that had belonged to us as a child that my dad had repainted for us, like refinished it and painted it and it lived in our bedroom. Right next to the bed. 'Cause I, I didn't wanna co-sleep, but I wanted her close, you know, and that first night was really easy. We only stayed in the hospital for one day.

We like came home the next day. They're pretty sleepy. Like they're not really awake and like, ready to be in the world yet, you know? And so the first night was like, oh, not too bad. Noisy, like mucusy noisy, like just their breathing is loud and stuff. But like, not like crying all night. We weren't up a bunch.

But I didn't do that. So, Reese moved into her nursery at like two days old. And that is where she took all of her naps and slept. Like where we did like, that's that, like, she moved into her room at two days and that's where she stayed, pretty much forever since. So yeah, like obviously huge transition, but also.

And she. It was late at night and she had a baby, and she came to my house with like balm and like all the things and like tried to talk me through like pumping and all like, you know, just like moms showing up for moms. Like even though she had her baby at home, she was like, I gotta go take care of this right now.

And so she showed up and you know, tried to walk me through that. But otherwise, I mean, the first little bit is. Hopefully just kind of the bliss of like, you're feeding, you're sleeping, you're taking care of like the house and the things that still are like going on around you because even though it feels like your whole world should have shift and stop when you have a baby, it also didn't, right?

Like everything is still happening. Outside of the door. And so we just settled, I feel like pretty quickly we settled into a little rhythm, the three of us. And, that postpartum period, like breastfeeding was challenging, but like worked through it. And, other than that, I feel like transition wise felt pretty, I.

I mean, when you went back to work, I don't think you wanted to, but I think that you. Figured it out. Well, if that makes sense. You knew how to pump and you knew how to manage your schedule and your routine and how to, manage whatever you did or didn't have to show up for, for Mike and its job, like from my side, it felt like you stepped into it really well.

And I do remember you brought up Betsy, but I do remember that little small group of women you had, you all were having babies at the same time. Yeah. And so while you were talking about Betsy, I just thought like, that to me was. An incredible example of the power of community when you have a child.

Jenn: Yes.

Like you

And now that I've had children, I can look back and think, wow, Jen was super lucky to have that in that season because clearly you had people literally showing up for you at night. And that's, that's what we need, but most of us don't have it. And so I'm so glad you had that then.

Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an interesting call out.

And so like that was my education. And then also I think that there is something so. Formative about the people that watch you become a parent. Like I talked about in the very beginning, that car ride when it was like, this is the last time it's us, Michael, like we're a family after this. And it was same for those people.

Like they knew us as Michael and Jen, and then they knew us as like a family and they got to see that transition and that change in, in both of us and in our relationship. And, when we moved away from those friends, that like group of people. I grieved it for a really long time, and I think I worked my, like every, we've lived in six states since then and like I've tried to recreate that on some level every time.

And she is still like an, a huge part of my life, even though there's distance that still separates us. But I, there's just something so formative and beautiful about the relationships that get to see, your transition into like motherhood and parenthood. They're special.

Lo: All right. That was perfect.

Thanks. I love hearing that story. I could hear it over and over and over again, and I do. I love those friends for you. I loved seeing them show up for you. It's really, yeah, it's what every, I wish everybody had going into what you were going into at that point, so, okay. Total topic switch, but I like to ask everyone this.

I didn't warn you because I don't wanna warn people. Tell me one thing, the first thing that comes into your brain right now, the one thing that's like sparking joy for you in your life. Big, small diet Coke, trash books. You're reading anything.

I've lived in Pacific Northwest for the vast majority of my life, and April is like a terrible month if you live in the p and w. But here in Pasadena, California, the sun is shining. I sat outside by my pool for hours yesterday, like this is, I take a lot of my work meetings on my outside deck. The sunshine has given me life in a way that I did not know I ever needed, and now I can't imagine ever living without.

But like every morning I open my eyes and it's like sunshine streaming through the windows. And man, that is very life-giving and not just to me, but like to my family, in this season. So, yeah,

Lo: I love that for you. I also think it means you're getting old and you wanna be one of those snowbird people or whatever they're called.

She's getting old people. That could be totally accurate. I'll just text you and I'm letting it snows who you're getting in Colorado, but I'm not surprised. That's your answer. Hard pass. All right, Jen, if anyone wanted to reach out to you and ask you about your birth or whatever, is there somewhere they can do that?

Yeah,

Lo: it?

Jenn: I'll put it in the show notes for you guys too. But

Lo: yeah, you know,

Jenn: you can find me on Instagram. I will tell you my profile is private because like this cool thing that happened is my daughter hit middle school this year and all of a sudden all her middle school friends were like creeping on my Instagram and I didn't like it.

And so, I made it private to keep the middle schoolers out. But you are welcome to follow me if you want. I share a lot about motherhood. I share about, i, I post pretty regularly, a lot about motherhood. What we're cooking, how we're making it through the day. And you'll see a lot of sunshine because really it is life giving to me here and I spend a lot of time soaking it up.

So, and we'll probably bring her

Lo: back on to talk about having middle schoolers 'cause she's the one who's teaching me what to do with all of my kids. 'cause she's a few years ahead of me. So anyways,

I would let her sleep on my chest. It would not have ruined her sleep habits. And I would relish the opportunity to pick out her clothes every day because, she's 12 years old now and looks like, I mean, like pajama pa pants are acceptable for school nowadays, but man, I used to dress her so dang cute.

But really if you could, I. If I could bottle up and keep any age, it's age four and five. To me that was the most magical, magical season of parenting ever. Middle school is magical and fun and also really wicked hard. But man, age four and five is like the magic sauce for sure. So, okay.

Lo: Well thanks for making me cry right at the end. Love you.

Jenn: Yeah,

Lo: thanks Shannon. Love

Jenn: you too. Thanks for having me.

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