Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is. I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

And we're leaning into that truth here with the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and practical applications. Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours. This is the lo and behold podcast.

If you have ever tried to breastfeed a baby, I am certain that, you know, it comes with 10,000 highs and lows and joys and successes and victories and failures and all the things, right? And one thing I've noticed at the bedside, and then of course just being the mom myself and having goals for this whole breastfeeding thing is just that desire to get off to the best.

And then how to keep moving forward in that. So Amber again is gonna join me today. She's a board certified lactation consultant. That's that I-B-C-L-C acronym that you might hear thrown around sometimes. She's the founder of the Latch Link, which is one of the nation's leading virtual lactation practices.

She's got over eight years of experience. She specializes in helping moms fix their latch issues, increase supply, and then just navigate feeding challenges with confidence, with a lot of clarity. She is known, and I think you'll hear in our convo, for just her kind of no fluff. Straight talking style and a really deep belief that you are the boss of your body and your feeding choices you're making for your baby.

So I hope you guys enjoy this. I know that it's gonna be super valuable for you, especially as you possibly prepare for getting off to your own best start in these next few weeks or months.

Hello everybody. So I am so excited today. I have brought on like a friend and a colleague, someone I get to do some like professional masterminding with as well. So it's been really fun to get to know Amber. But Amber again is with us today. She is an I-B-C-L-C, who has spent years. Years and years and years.

All right, Amber, why don't you go ahead and, say hey, and tell us who you are a little bit more personally too.

Amber: Yeah. So first of all, thank you so much for having me on here.

It has been a real pleasure getting to know you and seeing all the amazing work that you're doing. So yeah, my name's Amber. I'm a board certified lactation consultant. I got into this work after having my first child right before I turned 16. I did not have the birth that I wanted and I was hanging on to the last branch of hope that I could get breastfeeding right, and it was not going right in the beginning.

And so I ended up getting some support from a breastfeeding peer counselor at the WIC office. And it set my, feeding journey on a trajectory where I was able to meet my breastfeeding goals. I was able to get a pump and I held this. Massive pump back and forth to school for a whole year. And it just was so impactful on my journey, across my entire life, but especially as a mother that I was like, this is what I want to do.

And so it can be really hard to get in with people. You finally get in with someone and then you forget everything you learn. So virtual care lets me have really great continuity of care and teach moms how they can get that. Repeatable latch or understanding of how to increase their supply. And so I really have loved doing what I have been doing for the past eight years.

I've worked with thousands of moms. And yeah, I just, I love breastfeeding and intimate feeding, and like you said, I'm a really no fluff person. I just like to support moms where they are. And I don't like to bring any of my own baggage into feeding recommendations, which unfortunately can happen sometimes, especially on social media.

Right? And so the idea of continuity of care actually existing, often way better online or in a. In a better way, maybe for a longer term. It's actually so valuable and I think that it's good for people to hear that, that the online space you are just as effective. 'cause I know what you do and I know how you do it.

And you can continue to see moms as long as they need to see you and kind of as often as they need to see you too. 'cause there's just less boundary to access when you can jump on here like you and I are right now. See each other chat. And then log off and do it again. You know? So I think it's good, a good thing to keep reminding people of.

So I wanted to kind of tackle those, you know, 24 hours or so. Get some insight from you. And then of course, like I said as well, a little bit of your thoughts on the prep or what you feel like your mom should do if they come. That's probably part of prep, but if they come talk to you before having a baby as well.

So how do you answer that question? You know, how can I prepare for breastfeeding? And I'm seven months pregnant or whatever.

Amber: Yeah. So I think first and foremost, understanding what their goals are. I think whether it's your goals around how you want your birth to go or how your, feeding goals are, I think it's super important to understand what they are and why you have them.

Stick it out because you're not as informed about potential, hiccups and how you can remedy them. So I would say understanding a full picture of what it is you want to do and why will be like the first step when it comes to setting yourself up for breastfeeding success

Lo: prenatally. So I like the idea of like understanding the why as well, because I do think so many of us, I.

Just saying this is what we wanna do and that's great, right? Like I know that it's a good thing. I know that it's something that's valuable for my child and myself, so this is what I'm gonna do. But to have that a little bit more of why, like, this is why I care about it this much and this is what the benefits are.

So. Okay. So let's assume we've done some good prep. Actually, do you have any. Beyond that education and that kind of foundation for mama's building, like really practical, like, I think you should see an I-B-C-L-C before, or I think you should practice X, Y, Z before. I know that it can be different for everyone, but do you have anything else that you kind of tell people, do this, read this, try this before labor or birth actually starts.

Amber: For sure, I would definitely say meet with an I-B-C-L-C prenatally. If you have insurance, you can get as many prenatal consults covered as you want. The only stipulation there is Aetna, they have limits. The other plans, yeah, you can get care, prenatally as well, and then we can get into that. Why are you breastfeeding?

What are your goals? Everything like that. That way you're not just, and not, you know, no shade about anything. But a lot of moms are like, well, I just wanna exclusively breastfeed. But it's like, well, when do you wanna introduce? Bottles and they're like, yeah, well at some point. Mm-hmm. It's like, well, how often do you wanna pump?

And in addition, go over a lot of the things about, just hiccups that we see in positioning or when to get more help. And kind of like you were saying, knowing how to play ball with different hospital staff and how to, advocate for yourself and knowing when certain phrases might sound scary, but they're really not.

Mm-hmm. And all of that stuff is really useful for sure.

Lo: Mm-hmm. How often do you feel like moms actually come in and do a preemptive. Before I'm having a baby lactation consult. Do you see it very often?

Amber: Yeah. I would say probably 30% of my new clients, are prenatals.

Lo: Okay. That surprises me. That's awesome.

Yeah. So I've always wondered. Are people listening? 'cause I do think it's so valuable to make that game plan and, and have a person in your corner. That's one thing I talk about a lot is let's say someone decides to spend that prenatal time with you, you're also the person they know they can go to as soon as the ish hits the fan after if it does.

Right. You know, and it's so nice, I think to have to be, to know, I'm gonna email Amber right now, it's 2:00 AM on the third night or whatever. And not have to then search, you know, through your insurance coverage, your providers or whatever. Like, you know, you found your person, you figured it out, you did the work.

'cause for the good chance you're gonna want that person. Like I think all of us could benefit from lactation help after even when it's going well. Like that support and that encouragement. Super valuable. Anyways, that is surprising, but also really encouraging to be, although I'd be great if that number were, were higher.

And so I wanted to kind of lean into some of those questions a little bit and kind of bigger, broader overview. I. In a perfect world, if you're setting your moms up pre prenatally and talking about like the first couple hours with the baby, what's big goals here? What would you be telling them for related to getting off to, you know, quote unquote the best start breastfeeding?

Like, here's what we wanna be shooting for those first, you know, four hours or something like that.

Amber: Sure. Yeah. So I would say, like you're saying, optimal setting, uninterrupted skin to skin, you and baby. When the nurse comes in and offers to help you latch your baby politely, say, no thank you, because it is not helpful, to have someone.

And it's like, we. Let baby's instincts flow naturally from the very beginning. We don't wanna interrupt them in any way that we can. So uninterrupted skin to skin, letting baby take the lead on when and how to latch, that's the main thing. Not being worried about how long it takes to latch, like you're saying, within four hours, assuming a, an initial latch happens within four hours.

We're, we're doing great. And so. That would be what I would say, uninterrupted skin to skin and just let baby latch, don't let anyone manipulate things in the sense of like, not the, not that word, but like physically, have to come and, and, intervene if you can in, in my professional opinion anyway.

Obviously if someone feels like they need that additional help and wants hands on help, that's totally fine.

But you do, sometimes you do get the patients where they're like, I don't know what to do, like, help me. And there is that dance of like, I, there's nothing to do right now. Right? Like, baby's happy, you're fine. You can just hang out there. Or there is sometimes a point of like. You get the moms who truly have no, they're, it's like they're nervous to use their own body and like use their own hands too.

So there's this like funky navigating, which again, that kind of goes back to the prenatal conversations that if you're having these with the I-B-C-L-C, that they can kind of prepare you and talk to you about like what you can and can't do. What is there? Not candor can't do, but like what you should expect, like what to expect of your own body and babies and like how this might go and how this might feel.

Because I do think sometimes it's hard that first time you're kind of looking at the baby and looking at yourself and if you haven't done a little work or maybe you're just not as comfortable with these like processes in your body, then you're still kind of sitting there like, I'm glad the baby's here.

An interesting balance. So let's say you don't get skin to skin, because obviously this happens for a different variety of different reasons, like, do you have any specific suggestions about that or more just. As soon as you guys get that time or as soon as you are together, just carry on.

Amber: Yeah, so like skin tokin where, where baby is taken away maybe to like a NICU stay or something that's a little bit different to navigate, but if there's something going on maternal then, you know, skin to skin can be established with dad or whomever, your partner, whoever's there.

And that's, you know, completely fine. I would say in a, in a situation where you're have a prolonged, space from baby and you can't establish that for Latch, using colostrum, spoon feeding, cup feeding, syringe feeding. Any of those things can be good if doctors, are getting worried about like blood sugar or hydration or any of those things.

So I think generally speaking, skin to skin with someone is better than no one. And you have other options besides just using formula or a bottle, if those are things that aren't aligned with your both.

Lo: Yeah. I liked addressing that question 'cause I think a lot of times moms even looking backwards, can feel.

Shame, sadness or whatever about not getting skin to skin. And then maybe if breastfeeding didn't go really well or did it start off really well? There's this idea that like it's because you didn't get the skin to skin. And I just think it's important to say like, we can get started as soon as we can with all the things.

Amber: Oh yeah, for sure. Definitely. Oh no, I have plenty of moms who they're. Beginning, you know, maybe even seven days or longer was just like a mess. It was not what they wanted at all. And we can always do a lot with what we have now and we should never think about it. I mean, you have, you have children too. My kids are, my oldest is almost 17.

Like you can, whenever you're able to do it again, you know, go for it. Yeah. So it's not, no, no worries. I mean, feel your feelings. They're always valid if something went wrong, but just always understand that you can change things going forward. It's not like you missed it entirely.

Lo: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important.

I'm just gonna reiterate that like skin to skin has a ton of value moving forward and I'm, that comes into like milk supply and breastfeeding and bonding at home. Like, yeah, that first hour, that first 90 minutes, however long you get or choose to do is valuable and precious. And so I understand people grieving if they don't get that or if something happens.

So yeah, hear that. If you miss it for some op for some reason, just get to it as soon as you can, or you want to. Okay, so you mentioned a little bit prior that let's say baby doesn't latch for the first four hours, sleepy or whatever. Do you like to lean into like hand expression or expressing some milk, doing something else while we're waiting maybe for sleepy baby to wake up or for the latch to actually be effective while you're both learning or whatever?

Is there some, yeah. Like other ways to kind of fill those gaps if we're dealing with those things early on?

Amber: For sure. Yeah. So in like a situation where it's been like more than four hours and a latch still hasn't been established, I mean, I think, ex expressing colostrum prenatally towards the end can be a great way to have that on hand.

'cause that just I've seen can add layers if we feel like we're having to do this triple feeding stuff that is not typically, super fun for most pumps. So I would say hand expression is a great way though, to get some, milk flowing, to give baby. Because initially, as you know, like their tummies are teeny tiny and they don't need very much.

So a little hand expression can go a long way. You don't need to pull out the, like, Cadillac of breast pumps. They usually have like a symphony that's like this intense machine. You don't usually need that. So, yeah, using the hand expression can be a great way. And like I said, cup, spoon, syringe, like a feeding tube.

Different ways to feed baby that are not a bottle, if that's something you're trying to avoid.

Lo: Yeah, I like the anti prenatal, antenatal colostrum collection conversation. It's wild. I'm sure you weren't doing this when you had your first baby when you were 16. I don't. When do you feel like that even really entered the conversation?

As prevalently as it is now? I feel like it's been pretty recent. Yeah, I think so. I

Especially if you have something like gestational diabetes. It can be great. Yeah. That way if baby has blood sugar, issues afterward. Otherwise, it's just like everything else. You know? Do your research, see if it fits well for you. I have some moms who are like, well, how do I do this? And they seem really frustrated and I'm like, is this something you wanna do?

And they're like, well, I saw on TikTok. Right, exactly. You don't have to do everything you saw on TikTok. So yeah, it's just a personal thing. Just comes to everything.

Lo: Just to go backwards in case you are actually. Someone who's still like, what are they talking about? Colostrum collection prenatally essentially is just like hand expressing in the last couple weeks before baby is born.

And so like I was asking her about this practice. I never heard about it with my, my oldest currently is eight or my 6-year-old who's like just coming on the scene with my current 4-year-old and then all over the place with my current 1-year-old. So, so I've done it with some of my kids. I've not done it with some of my kids personally, have breastfed all of them like just the same or, well, however you wanna say.

So I don't want you to think you missed the mark or you're missing the mark. Like Amber said, if you don't wanna do this. It's fine. And if you wanna try it and lean into it, that's great too. Like it's a pretty, it's a valuable practice and if you don't do it, it doesn't have an indication of what's gonna happen after birth.

Hand expressing when I'm super engorged. Like just have, just being comfortable with that skill I think has some value. Whether or not you're trying to collect 10 mils of colostrum or whatever before your birth is to me, neither here nor there either, but yeah. Has some value. But isn't something to hinge your entire, like, breastfeeding story on.

I'm assuming definitely. I'm assuming you would agree with that. I agree. Yes. Yeah. So, I know when we had talked a little bit prior, you talked about, birth decisions that can impact breastfeeding. And so before we kind of go to the hours moving forward postpartum, I wanted to stick, stick on that for a minute and just kind of hear your thoughts or what you would want moms to hear about.

About some of that, like things in birth that can happen and maybe impact breastfeeding, impact, weight loss, things like that, that can come up for us in those first, you know, two to three days or beyond.

During labor in whatever form. Because those two things together can get a little tricky because, when baby takes on a lot of fluids, they can lose weight more rapidly. And having the Pitocin exposure can make our milk supply, kick off a little bit slower. So those two things combine can sometimes cause a little bit of issues.

But again, it's not anything that you have to, you know. Refuse an induction because you're worried about that. It's just worth noting that way. If you're like, huh, baby's lost a lot of weight, then we can work backwards and be like, well, how long did we have fluids during our labor? Or if you feel like your milk supply is slow to come in, we can, same thing.

I know that definitely happened for me. I was like, everything went sideways. Like, is breastfeeding gonna be this way too? So I feel like preparing for both sides of things, at least if one thing's not quite going the way you want, you know, that you feel empowered and confident on the other side for like, breastfeeding and whatnot.

So I think it's just a lot of mindset stuff. But as far as like practical things, I would say the fluid exposure and, pitocin are the big two I see most often being a little bit problematic.

Lo: Okay. That's funny. It doesn't, I, I think the fluids one gets talked about a lot or you know, if you are digging a little bit, you'll find that one.

Like mom's getting fluid means baby gets fluid and then, but yeah, I don't feel like we hear the Pitocin one quite as. Quite as much. But I liked what you said too. Just that idea that that doesn't then mean we refuse an induction or that if we're induced, it means we can't breastfeed. I, I remember bringing this up once on my Instagram account, and we were chatting about some of this, like in my stories, and I ended up asking the question, you know.

And we still can do this very well. You know, we can do this well, and we get to where we wanna be too. So. But it is valuable to have that info when those conversations, I think come up these, like these post birth things we're talking about where, you know, the RN then walks into the room and says, Hey, your baby's at, eight, 9% weight loss and now it's time for us to do X, Y, Z.

And that was something I wanted to talk to you about too. 'cause I have been the nurse, like I told you before we started, who has walked into the room many different times and said, I. So we weigh babies at about 24 hours of life, just as a standard most hospitals are going to. So they weigh your baby when they're born, and then at 24 hours of life there's 24 hour screens and some checks, it's a weight check.

Hey, baby's at eight or 9% weight loss. And then for us, that meant we have to start talking about what are we going to do if we were above seven to 8%. Those one, those numbers were okay. It was just more, let's make sure that they're feeding frequently every two to three hours. And then if we got above 8, 9, 10, then it was like we have to do something more specific.

And so. That could be we need you pumping after, which I don't really think the electric pump helps a ton in these early hours anyway, but we need you feeding more often. We need you supplementing with donor milk or formula, like all of a sudden it just started this whole conversation. So what would you say to the mom who has a provider.

Amber: Yeah. And so, my favorite phrase is like, what would happen if we wait?

Like, always feel comfortable to ask that, whether it's during birth or with feeding stuff, anything with your babies. It's what would happen phrase, ever.

Lo: Yep. What if we do nothing? Yep.

Amber: Yeah. So always feel free to ask that. I would say unfortunately a lot of moms who don't know those connections about the fluids and different things they can,

you know, it's scary. It's same thing. It's like during your, your laborers, they're like, well, we could listen to you, or, you know, your baby could get sick and die. And it's like the, the same, you know, it's like, or your baby could starve and so nobody wants to hear that. Right. So just understanding the, you can ask what happens if we wait.

So it really depends on the situation. So understanding all of the risks. Benefits, et cetera. And then making an informed decision and understanding the good news and bad news about being the mom is that you are the boss, which means you get to make decisions, but then at the same time, you're responsible for the consequences of the decision.

So ultimately no one can make you, you know, within reason. They can't make you do anything you don't wanna do. They're not gonna let you just not feed your baby for a long time. But generally speaking, yeah, we get to decide.

Lo: I

Amber: think that.

Lo: Response of what if we just do nothing right now? Or just even saying, not even asking, but just saying, I'd like to continue doing what we're doing for the next four hour.

I have no milk like they, I don't see anything coming out. The nurse seems worried or whomever it, you know, and it's easy to get in your head and kind of stop either trusting what you learned before or trusting what you know about the process or trusting what you know about milk supply and that you know, at this point you have this much.

And then at this point it starts to change. Like all of that preemptive knowledge can be so valuable to fall back on in these moments where we think my baby's crying, maybe they are really hungry. 'cause I feel like that. Amber, the number of times a mom has said, I think she's really hungry. Like just because they're, you know, a newborn baby crying and it's so, it can be so hard to say, well, yes, they're crying like babies cry.

So, so let's say. We are going to supplement or the weight loss is 12% or something, like something where it is indicated, hey, until your mouth comes in or something, we need to do a little bit more. How do you kind of walk with your moms through that conversation if they wanna be like an exclusively breastfeeding.

Amber: Yeah. So I mean, I definitely think, touring your hospital, if that's possible, or at least asking questions about, donor milk, how that looks.

Are you allowed to bring your own milk in which in most cases you are, if you have your frozen CLOs of et cetera. So, I mean, understanding like the policies and whatnot around that stuff would be really great. I think doing some research on if you were to need formula, what's the formula that your family feels most comfortable with having, rather than just being reliant on the hospital formula.

But I think a lot of hospitals do have. Policies about preparing powdered formula because you don't have boiling water and all of those things, but you can have, you know, pre-made, ready to drink formula. So yeah, I think just understanding like if things were to go sideways, like what would your, like optimal, like your good, better, best, like what, where would you wanna fall on those?

And then having a clear understanding of, of how you would personally wanna navigate those different choices as they come up, I think would be really useful. For sure.

Lo: Do you have specific feelings about, again, we're still talking like first couple days, you're, you're still in, let's say you're still inpatient for this.

Amber: Yeah. So I mean, I would just, I walked through that with mom's friend, elite, like there are some like risks to using bottles in the sense of like nipple preference and whatnot, but it's again, our babies are so adaptable and clever that it's not the end of the world. I. I think for moms, if using the, the syringe or the spoon or the cup feels cumbersome and annoying and it's stressing you out and you would feel better using a bottle, then let's do the thing that's gonna stress you out the least.

I mean, it's, any choice is gonna work and you can make any choice. Work later on, like having done a bottle can still, you can still have your breastfeeding journey that you desire to have. So it really depends on your goals. If you try one and you're like, this is frustrating, I feel like I'm doing it wrong and you'd feel better using a bottle, then you know, all good, we can, we can work with that.

Or I had this happen so my supply's never gonna come in. Or I had to do a bottle early or supplement early, which means I'm not gonna be able to get off the bottle. Like I think we can feel. Like once we've done something that we can't ever come back from that. And you would have even more personal experience in, in this too, with work as well.

But like I just don't think that that's true. I think that there are so, like you talked about good, better, best, like there are times we're gonna hit good and there's times we're gonna hit better and there's other things that we're gonna hit best. And there's times we may not even hit good, but like eventually it can all still come together.

Amber: Yeah, for sure. And I know those first few days, with baby and even weeks, are so important and they're so valuable. But in the grand scheme of your, your breastfeeding journey, they are a fairly small piece. So like you're saying, if things don't start out quite right, yeah. There's so much we can do.

We have so much time to work on things.

Lo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think we can stop there for now. Is there anything else you wanna add, either specific, to, those first. Couple days that we were talking about or, or beyond as well.

Amber: I would say always remember the I-B-C-L-C near you is not your only option.

So find someone who resonates with you. 'cause maybe you want someone who's a little bit, more crunchy or a little bit more chill or whatever. Just find what works for you. And, just understand that you have choices in that. It's not like you're stuck with only the person who's at the hospital or at your OBS clinic.

So that's the main thing I would say, whether that's prenatally or postpartum.

Lo: I'll say my facility had LCS on staff all the time, and then you were allowed to come back to them. But I think it's important to know that insurance isn't typically tied to, you have to go to the one that's at the hospital you deliver at.

It's simply like we provide lactation consult. Reimbursement, right? So, like Amber said, you can, you can choose who that is if you don't want to use the one at the hospital, or you don't hit it off with them. And so, you know, you want someone different or you just wanna figure it out before. More often than not, you know, way more about insurance than I do.

Amber: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And if you have like an I-B-C-L-C that you like seeing in person for one thing, but you're dealing with like bottle refusal and you wanna work with someone on that, you can see multiple people, your care team can be, full of as many people as you need.

So I definitely always encourage people to build a really good care team, both prenatally and postpartum

Lo: for sure. Okay. That's making me ask one more question because. Do you think it's, complicated at all to have like different, I've had a lot of moms, like even in my dms and stuff saying, you know, I had one lc tell me this and one lc tell me that.

Like, just a little tip or thought on how moms can kind of navigate the fact that you will get different tips and different input even from CLCs, IBCLCs, whatever. Like, it's not always. Everybody feels the same way. Like you said, you've got more crunchy or more this or more that, and it, it will come out differently in their education and support.

It's all good. You can tell me the truth. I'm not gonna like, you know, fear monger you about something, on either side. So I think just if you get advice from someone and you're like, that doesn't feel right, then just ignore it. Like you're, you're allowed to, to, to ignore people's advice. That's gonna get you really far in motherhood.

Just learning to ignore people's advice.

Lo: Yeah. And what you just said of like, take what you want and leave the rest. You're allowed to do that. You don't have to like, just take everything someone says as gospel and that that's all that you. All that you're gonna hold onto too. You can pick and choose.

Amber: Oh, the fact that it's sunny outside. I love the sunshine. So the spring and vitamin D, that is wonderful. I'm loving that right now.

Lo: That is

Amber: so

Lo: funny. I just did a podcast with someone yesterday and they said the same thing, so as soon as you looked out your window, I thought she's gonna say the sun.

Clearly. We're all fend in for sun after the long winter. Okay. All right, Amber, where can people find you or get support and yeah, get more from you.

Amber: Yeah, so, I am at Amber, the IB CLC on most social media platforms like Pinterest, Instagram, and YouTube. And my website is just the latch link.com. I have a blog on there with lots of information.

I have a podcast called The Latch Lounge. And yeah, I think that's, that's everything. And like I said, I do accept insurance. Aetna Anthem, blue Cross, blue Shield, Cigna, and UHC. If you have those covered a hundred percent, all across breastfeeding, you don't have to wait for things to be going sideways to get help.

So yeah, just reach out. I love, I love working with moms on everything related to infant feeding and breastfeeding.

Thank you so much for listening to The Low and Behold Podcast. I hope there was something for you in today's episode that made you think, made you laugh or made you feel seen. For show notes and links to the resources, freebies, or discount codes mentioned in this episode, please head over to low and behold podcast.com.

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