Motherhood is all consuming.

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is, I can be having the best time being a mom one minute.

And then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this.

And we're leaning into that truth here with the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and practical applications.

Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

This is the lo and behold podcast.

This conversation in today's episode is such an important one, and genuinely it is a lifesaving conversation, and I think that could feel a little bit dramatic when we put lifesaving together with kit counts.

But the reality is, is that kit counting in our pregnancies.

Can save lives.

It's just true.

And that can make it feel like a really big responsibility.

And it is, but it also is something that we can do really well and really seamlessly while we're pregnant.

I think that one of the biggest hurdles to that is simply not knowing how to do this well and in a way that we just feel confident and comfortable in.

And that kind of, again, just seamlessly fits into our lives, particularly in that last trimester when this becomes really important.

My guest today is Kimberly Iceberg.

She is the communications director for Healthy Birthday Inc. And she leads that organization strategy to communicate the impact and the effectiveness of the Count, the Kicks Stillbirth prevention program.

Kimberly is a mom of two.

She's an advocate for improving maternal mental health outcomes.

She's a graduate of Drake University.

If any fellow Drake University alums are here, and Kimberly is just really passionate about, like we said.

Changing and saving lives.

And that's what this Count the Kicks program is all about.

That's what Healthy Birthday exists for.

And so I hope that you guys find this conversation super valuable and really applicable.

We intend it to be one that's hopeful, honest, full of information, and then one that you can turn around and leave this conversation from and know exactly what to do and where to go with or inside of the pregnancy you might be in right now.

Kimberly, thank you so much for being here with me today.

This topic is one that all of us are going to need at some point, so I am so grateful to have your voice.

Why don't you introduce yourself a little bit more and then we're just gonna get into the very practical hands-on realities of kick counting and what you do.

Thanks Lo.

I'm really excited to be here.

My name is Kimberly Iceberg and I'm the communications director for Healthy Birthday, Inc. Which is the nonprofit that created the Still Worth Prevention Program.

I'm a mom of two.

My background and career has been in communications and marketing.

But since having my own kids about 11 years ago, I had my first and I really became passionate about supporting other moms, supporting other families throughout their pregnancy journey, and postpartum and really.

Helping to provide education and empowerment and all the things that I didn't know.

So when I found this position with Kpa Kicks, it was really the perfect combination to combine my background in communications and also my passion for helping to support, women throughout their pregnancy journey.

I've been with the organization for about five and a half years, and I truly believe in this program, in the simple daily practice that all moms should be doing during.

Pregnancy during the third trimester to help improve their chance of having a healthy birth come.

So really excited to be here and just passionate about making sure that all moms are equipped with this information.

Yeah.

I have to say, like on my social media platform, I've always tried to have it be a space where my dms, I do try.

It's always been me and my dms, so I am trying to like answer questions and walk that line between, like, I can't like help you do everything, but I do wanna be a real person in my dms.

And I get kick count kind of questions all the time and so often it is this like.

I don't get to make these decisions for you.

Like if you're worried, you need to make the decision, you need to talk to your provider.

But I do think sometimes a lot of decisions about kick counting or that, like what do I do now if there is a concern or worry, you're just not sure, come from just a real lack of clarity about what is our actual responsibility when we hit.

28 weeks or 26 with twins, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a little earlier.

With high risk pregnancies, we pay attention a little sooner.

Or we pay very specific attention sooner.

And I do think, yeah, so often it's just the, like, no one ever really told me what you know, quote unquote the rules.

And I'm still unclear about what I should or shouldn't be paying attention to.

So I know I told you before we started, this might feel like a little practical.

Maybe some of you listening are like, oh, I know this stuff, but I'm gonna have Kimberly go over kind of those foundational basics that we need to know as we start to consider kit counting and paying attention in that last trimester of our pregnancy.

So what's your guys or the organizations, kind of that broad overview of like, this is how you start to do kick counts.

Yeah.

So,

like you said, at that 28 week mark, the beginning of the third trimester, or if you are high risk or pregnant with twins, you wanna start around 26 weeks.

You wanna count movements once a day, every day around the same time.

So, if, if you choose to do it after dinner or after breakfast, or in the evening when you're starting to sit down and relax, you wanna do it around the same time every day, and you wanna.

Pick a time that your baby's normally active.

So the reason that kick counts are recommended at this start of the third trimester is because that's when most babies get into what is a more recognizable pattern of movement.

So you're gonna notice that they're active around the same times every day.

And so pick one of those times if your baby's always moving and grooving after you have breakfast, go with that.

And then you'll wanna sit down and kind of focus on your baby's movements, and you'll count how long it takes your baby to move 10 times.

And we have a free app that'll make it really easy, but I'll talk a little bit more about that later.

So.

Time, how long it takes your baby to reach 10 movements.

And while you're doing that, also pay attention to the strength of those movements, because that's another important sign of your baby's wellbeing.

So one are gonna be those light stuttery movements that you might feel really early on in your first notice that your baby's moving, and five is gonna be those fierce big kicks and jabs that you.

Feel, you know, you might be able to see 'em out on the outside even.

Mm-hmm.

And so notice the strength of movement.

Count how long it takes to get to 10.

And then once you're done with that, kinda take any notes about that day.

You know, maybe something you ate or a question you wanna ask your doctor.

And then, you do that every day for several days a week, 10 days, you're gonna begin to see a pattern, a normal amount of time.

Meditates your baby.

To get to 10 movements and an average strength that your baby's movements are, and by doing that every day, you're gonna know, okay, this is what's normal for my baby.

This is what I should expect every day.

And if it ever varies outside of what is normal for your baby, then that's when you wanna speak up and contact your provider.

Perfect.

So you kept saying your baby and definitely like enunciating that your, and I think that's so important in this conversation because I like my first baby, I had an anterior placenta, so that that comes up a lot because when the placenta is on the front, it can kind of like diminish the strength.

Mm-hmm.

Of what you feel because it's kind of blocking between you and the baby.

But that was my normal for my entire pregnancy with my first girl, right?

And so I, I think there can be this idea of like, oh my gosh, I've never seen my baby like jab that hard as.

My friend sitting next to me or whatever.

But if you have an anterior placenta, if your baby's established that they have different normals, all of that is okay.

It's about like figuring out what your baby's regular rhythms are and then looking for those regular rhythms happening every day.

And so I think there's just this little game of like, we're not comparing to the pregnancy next to us.

We're comparing and paying attention to what happened yesterday and the day before in our own body and with our own baby.

And that might look different between me and you, but it's just about.

Kind of us in isolation and the baby in isolation.

So absolutely every, every baby, every pregnancy are different.

Mm-hmm.

So, like you said, both of my boys in my pregnancies, they moved differently, moved at different times of day, had different levels of, of movement, types of movement, and so.

The key is really just getting to know what is normal for your baby in that pregnancy.

That's, and again, not comparing it to your friend or your sister or your last baby, but really getting to know that baby in that pregnancy.

Mm-hmm.

Which really will apply to like everything you do when you raise those babies, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Nothing's the same.

Okay.

My other kind of question with that is, we talk a lot about, hey, you start this at 28 weeks or maybe 26 like you mentioned.

How do you guys speak to or answer those kind of concerns when someone's like 24 or 25 and they are paying attention?

Because so many of us feel our babies by that point, and we might feel them pretty regularly.

And so how do you guys address that?

When technically kick counting, every day isn't, I'm gonna say required, but we feel our babies, we kind of recognize what is or isn't going on.

And if something were to change or feel, feel different, what should a mom do in that situation?

Absolutely always trust your gut, trust your instincts.

Speak up.

Call your provider.

Mm-hmm.

Go to the hospital and get checked while 26 to 28 weeks is the recommendation for when to start.

We know that moms are feeling their baby's move earlier than that, and that you can start to become familiar with your baby's normal weeks before you get to that third trimester.

Yeah.

And so, absolutely.

If you know that your baby is always moving, like I said, after breakfast and one day, they are not moving after breakfast, call your provider.

It's important to trust that you know your body and your baby.

And that even if you aren't yet at that third trimester mark, a change in your baby's movements can be a sign that something is going on that needs to be checked and needs to be addressed.

And so should, you should always speak up even if you are not officially kit counting yet.

That's right.

I can say too, from like a OB nurse perspective and someone who's taking care of lots of, you know, decreased fetal movement checks, it's essentially like what we would call it, if you come in and you're worried about movement.

I would never, not as a provider.

I would choose that you would come in every single time.

Even though I feel like so many people have this story of I haven't felt them all day.

And then as soon as you put the monitor on, they were going crazy.

Like, yeah, we saw that a lot.

And I don't know why it was or wasn't happening.

And so many times, you know, the majority of the times all was well.

But I would choose every time that you come in and you're sure of that and that you know that, and you go home and you can sleep at night knowing it's all good.

We got checked, like in my opinion, I feel like.

That's part of like what OB triage is for is to check on these situations, is to make sure that all is well when you're just not sure.

That's why I'm gonna say we exist, but that like triage system or that ability to come and give your provider a call and get things checked out.

It's meant to be utilized.

Like it's not just there for these random, super rare, like you might need it.

Like triage is often really busy because we need to just check on things and that's okay.

So I guess I'm saying don't ever feel guilty for coming in and bothering them or checking in.

Like that's why it exists.

That's why it's part of the healthcare that we offer in ob.

So.

It's just my little, I guess one off encouragement.

I was gonna read you a text from a girlfriend that I got the other day.

I have a couple friends having their fourth babies and it's such a good, it was like, so.

Perfect for this combo.

I knew I had coming up with you because you were talking about, like knowing your baby's normals and that this isn't just about getting to the number 10 essentially.

And she texted me and she said, Hey, here's a weird one for you.

Fourth pregnancy.

It's my first time feeling this.

It feels like baby is breathing really hard.

Like rhythmic movements that feel like it's gasping for non-existent air.

So that was just her take on what she was feeling.

And definitely like I was asking her, you know, it's not hiccups, obviously, you know what that is.

And we were chatting back and forth, she was mentioning, I know that they can practice breathing and sometimes that that can have like a specific feeling or whatever.

But when she texted me and I read that initial set of texts, my initial response, 'cause of knowing what you're sharing and teaching is like, if this feels abnormal to you, that's something to pay attention to.

And so I, if you could speak to that a little more, just that idea of, it's not just about feeling a movement, but it's then is it different from yesterday?

Are these like really different, new erratic, you know, that type of making those kind of judgment calls a little bit.

Right?

Absolutely.

It.

And that advice is great.

It really is.

Like anything that feels outside of your baby is normal, is something that you should be alerting your provider about.

You should be going to labor and delivery just to get checked.

While we talk a lot about a deep pace in fetal movement, we have heard from moms that talk about, you know, a sudden wild surge of movement and that's also abnormal for their baby.

And a reason that you would want to go and get checked or, we hear from moms that say, like, my baby's, it's still moving and kicking, but their, their kicks just don't feel as strong as they did yesterday or as they did a week ago.

And so, again, any change in.

Frequency or strength or you know, anything like that, something that feels off or different is a reason that you should go and get checked.

Like you said, and like so many providers we hear from, they would rather have you come and, and 10 times and everything is fine then to, to not trust what, what you're feeling and to come in and have something wrong.

So yeah, I absolutely always go in and get checked.

And I will say my friend, she ended up calling into the midwife line and they had her come in the next day 'cause they were feeling pretty confident, but they, their guess at, in that specific scenario was, you know, like, maybe we can check your fluid levels.

It's possible if your levels are low, that that can change what you're feeling.

And obviously that could be something you wanna be aware of as a care team.

Anyway, all was well.

They're doing great, but I just loved getting that text as that reminder of, it's kind of tricky for all of us.

Whether it be your first baby or your seventh, like, I've talked to my husband about this before.

It just feels like a, what would be the word?

Like kind of part of that mental load of pregnancy that you do carry of, I'm the only one who can kind of monitor my baby's movements in the day today.

And so whether or not you have experience doing that with a prior pregnancy, it's a job and a responsibility each day that you're pregnant and.

There's, it can feel like there's a lot of unknown in that 'cause you can't see what's going on.

You don't know what's going on.

So you just have to kind of know and trust yourself.

Like, I'm doing the best I can with what I know to monitor my baby and that's all I can do.

So it feels like there's some vulnerability in that too, of I'm the only one who can do this and there's only so much I can do as well.

So

that's absolutely true.

But I also think like your friend texting you is a perfect example of how we can all help.

Educate, empower, encourage people to speak up because as moms, as women, I think we question ourselves so often and don't really trust what we're feeling or thinking.

Mm-hmm.

And, when you share that with somebody.

It's important that they validate that and say, yes, I, I do think this is important that you call your provider or go to labor in the delivery, whether it's your spouse or your friend, or your mom or whoever else is kind of in your pregnancy journey there to support you.

You know, hopefully they will help, help you feel empowered to speak up and to trust what you're feeling.

Yeah.

Why don't you talk a little bit more about the app that you guys do have, because there are some really cool tools Yeah.

Like built into it to kind of help us maybe not feel so alone or like have a really practical, tangible way to pay attention to this.

Yeah.

I'm gonna try to pull it up here.

Yeah.

But it's just count the kicks in the app store.

Mm-hmm.

It's available in more than 20 languages.

And, once you get in there, you can just hit this.

Start counting Bud and it pulls up this little footprint and you just tap the footprint every time you feel your baby move.

Yep.

And the types of movements you're looking for are kicks, pokes, jabs, rolls, swish.

The only thing that does not count is a hiccup, because with your involuntary movement, so your baby isn't choosing to hiccup, just kind of a thing that's happening to them.

So again, tap it every time you feel your baby move.

If you accidentally, tap it too soon, you can undo it.

Oh, I hit the wrong thing.

Undo, less kick.

But anyway, you're gonna do this, until you reach 10.

So that could be five minutes for you.

It could be 10 minutes for your baby, it may be longer, kinda again, whatever is normal for your baby.

And then once you get to 10.

It's gonna pop up the screen.

You can't see it very well.

But anyway, it's got two little footprints there, five footprints.

So again, rate the strength on a scale of one to five.

It's got a spot there for you to take notes.

So again, if you had, I don't know, like pineapple for breakfast and your baby was really moving a lot and you wanted to keep that as a special memory or you thought like, oh, hey, I forgot to ask my doctor about this particular thing related to my birth plan.

You can add that stuff there.

And then finish your session and then it's gonna show you kind of a chart, of your movement over time.

And this is not a great example 'cause I am, you know, just testing you.

But what you wanna see is really a, a nice level, bar across there.

And the same with strength.

Kind of a nice level bar there.

And if you do see a big swing either way, that's kind of one of those indicators that you should, be speaking up and calling your provider to say, Hey, you know, I've been counting, my day isn't moving like they normally do.

The cool, one of the cool things about this is you can share your sessions with, your family or your friends, your spouse or your healthcare provider, so you can, text it or email it right there out of the app.

You can take it with you just like I showed there and say, you know, hey, I have a concern.

You can see here that it normally takes my baby 10 minutes to move and 10 times, and today it's taking an hour.

So really, great tool to have.

It's kind of like having a data download for your motherly intuition.

Like I said, it's available in 20 languages.

We also have a contraction timer on that.

So once you get to the point at the end of your pregnancy where your baby's ready to make their appearance, you can use the app to time your contractions as well.

And then we've got some fun stuff in there, to help motivate you to count.

So we've got some badges in there that you can earn for counting every day and for doing other things within the app as well.

Okay, perfect.

She was, I know you guys can't all see us.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can, but basically the app is incredibly user friendly.

I can tell you guys the same.

I have mine open right now.

And it really is just like some simple pictures, buttons, like you're, the chances of you getting confused with how to utilize this app or to kind of pay attention to what's going on over the last few weeks is pretty slim.

So I, that's one thing I actually really just appreciate about it is.

It's very clear how to use it and it doesn't feel clunky.

You just open it and you start tracking and it's that easy.

'cause sometimes you just don't want things to feel complicated, especially when you're pregnant and doing all the things.

So, yeah.

I love your guys' app.

It's the one that I've been using for, I wanna say at least my last two babies.

When do you know do, of course, you know when the app actually was first created?

Yeah, the app.

Yeah.

So that would've been, I must've been using it for maybe the three of them anyway.

Yeah, it's a good app.

It's, as always, one I've thought has been really user friendly.

So it's just helpful.

Is that always good to hear that.

And we do have a web counter as well, if you wanna count mm-hmm.

Like on your desktop computer when you're at the office Okay.

Or something.

And then it is also, compatible with Apple Watch, so we can count on your watch as well.

Oh, nice.

I don't know that I knew that.

That's great.

Okay, a couple myths that I wanted dispel, and we've probably been like poking at them throughout the conversation, but I just wanna make sure that's clear too before this conversation ends.

I kind of have.

I just wrote a little list here on the side of some of the myths that I still feel like pop up or that we maybe believe.

So just gonna throw 'em out there and you can just correct them for us and tell us if that we are wrong.

So the first one is just that like 10 in two hours and having it be such a specific like number within a number and kind of what would you say to that?

That's a little outdated as far as mm-hmm.

Kit counting advice goes, like I said at the beginning, every baby and every pregnancy are different, so.

Mm-hmm.

For my baby, it might take 10 minutes, and for yours it might take 20 minutes or 30 minutes.

But if your baby normally moves 10 times in 10 minutes and one day it's taking two hours to get mm-hmm.

10 movements, that is a significant difference and change to what's normal for your baby.

Yeah.

So the key really is.

Not getting a specific number of movements in a set amount of time, but knowing how long it takes your baby to get to that time,

and then expecting to see something like that each day, like the whatever that normal has been established.

Okay.

Perfect.

Okay.

The next one, I still feel like this is everywhere, is that babies kind of run out of room at the end of pregnancy and that that then means they'll move less and things like that.

Yeah.

Babies do not run out of room.

They, do not move less towards the end of pregnancy.

They absolutely should continue moving up to and during labor.

They should continue moving at the same times of day that they have moved throughout pregnancy.

Kinda the same frequency of movements.

You might feel different types of movements towards the end of your pregnancy versus early on, earlier on.

So more jabs, but in fewer like roles.

Mm-hmm.

But you're still gonna be feeling those movements and they are not gonna run out of room.

And it's not like your super active baby suddenly becomes a less active baby because they're just squished in there.

No.

Like you should still have that normal.

They're active every day between 10 and noon.

They always have been.

And they would continue to be.

So even if I'm 40 weeks pregnant.

Correct.

Your baby's activity is a sign of their wellbeing.

Right.

And so if they become less active, that's a sign that maybe they, there's something going on mm-hmm.

In utero that they're not getting what they need and that's a sign that you really need to go and get checks.

Okay, perfect.

And then last one is, should people be trying things to wake the baby up, like taking a hit of orange juice or whatever the recommendations are or ideas?

Maybe not recommendations.

No.

I know that people get this advice a lot.

Yeah.

Maybe even from their doctor's office.

Kick counts are best monitored without interventions like juice or candy or ice water.

Again, if you think about what happens when you don't feel well, say you have the flu, you.

Lay down on the couch, you may be in bed all day.

Your movement changes and you may like drink a soda and feel kind of a surge of energy, but it isn't actually fixing what's wrong with you?

What's going on with you.

Yeah.

And so again, these are the same.

If they are not feeling well, if they're not getting what they need, their movement is gonna change, and that's an important sign that you should pay attention to.

And doing something to get them to move isn't really fixing.

The cause of their change in movement.

That's perfect.

I've never really thought about it that way, but it makes perfect sense that even if they were to wake up, you're not actually treating if there's something going on.

Mm-hmm.

What is making them not feel great anymore?

Yeah.

So that's a really good way to look at it.

Okay.

Any other myths?

Those were the three big ones that kind of popped in my head.

Any other myths you feel like are out there and you wanna address really quickly?

I, I will.

Actually, I'll reiterate really quick.

You mentioned like babies should continue to move during labor and I think it's good to just like plug that in your head again too.

Obviously inside of the work of labor.

You know, we can get caught up in that and that's, it's a good thing to, to, to be in labor and be thinking about it, but that yes, your baby should continue to be moving, like if you're laboring at home for quite some time, which I think is great.

So I'm not telling you don't labor at home.

Yeah.

But just to still kind of be paying attention to what you're feeling from baby during labor too.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think the other thing we care about is like using a Doppler device at home.

Yes.

Let's talk about that.

Yeah, so that's one of those things that a Doppler device is really something that you should only use under the guidance of the healthcare professional.

Again, research shows that a change in baby's movements is the first or often only sign that there may be an issue in pregnancy.

And, the change in the heartbeat can be one of the last things that's happening if there is a baby that's in distress.

So again, there's a lot of room for error when it comes to your Doppler device.

And so really it's that movement monitoring that should be your go-to kinda check in for a baby's wellbeing.

And, if you are using a Doppler device, definitely only under the guidance of your healthcare professional.

I feel like that is one that families don't love because sometimes it is like, oh, I just love to hear baby.

But even if you're doing it just for fun, like, oh, let's listen to baby today, it is very easy, I think, to get confused about what you're hearing.

So almost to also create fear that doesn't exist.

Mm-hmm.

Instead of just relying on these kick counts and these movements, like you said, because those are our best indicators that like all as well, so.

I think it's like not great to grab if you have a concern because mm-hmm.

We need to be paying attention to our kit counts as the way we're monitoring this.

And it also can introduce problems when you're grabbing it like just for fun when you know potentially all is well, but because you don't maybe know how to use it or maybe you hear something but are interpreting it incorrectly, then it can create anxiety and fear that otherwise doesn't need to exist either.

So it feels like.

I'm gonna say like dangerous tool, someone's probably gonna roll their eyes, but it, it can introduce a lot of problems, I think simply because if you're not a trained healthcare provider, like you said, multiple times, it's really easy to misinterpret what you're hearing either in like a good direction or a bad direction.

I feel.

Yeah, and that's coming from someone who has one at their house.

You guys, I'll be honest, I do know how to use them.

I do know how to hear D cells and things like that in a heart rate, but even, even for myself, like I have, have never wanted to actually use them as a tool to like reassure myself because I want to trust the movements and the kick counts that we've been sitting here talking about, because that is what is our best sign and is the tool we can use.

Every day, no matter where we are, like we don't bring a doppler with us.

We have ourselves in our bodies, and that is the way we can pay attention consistently for those, you know, 12, 13, 14 weeks that we should be doing that.

So.

Okay.

I'm glad you brought that one up.

I forgot about that one, but it is, it is definitely out there, isn't it?

Okay.

Any other one that you were thinking of aside from the Doppler to that missed combo?

I think the other thing we hear a lot is that kit counting is going to increase anxiety.

In moms and what we've actually found and heard from our app users is about 77% of our app users say that it helped to decrease their anxiety about the wellbeing of their baby.

So again, by counting every day, by knowing what's normal for your baby, by being able to see it, if you're using the app and really have that, that data to look at, you're actually helping to give yourself peace of mind to know.

That your baby is moving like normal that day or on a day that maybe something is different.

You have that data again to, to back up your feeling that something is different.

It makes me think of birth education and I'm such a big believer that like.

The more you know, the less you're going to fear because you can actually say, Hey, here's some solid things I can stand on, and not just like maybe my heart or my anxieties are talking to me, but I can pull in this, this data too and say, well, I also know this to be true, and like, how do I put, you know, my heart or my intuitions or my feelings together with.

These practical realities too, because it is easy.

I think, otherwise there's this, this void right of information and if you're just kind of circling around in that and don't have something to focus in on and kind of give you some clarity and some boundaries, it is easy to feel pretty anxious I think, and feel a little bit lost, but when you do have some, some good boundaries and some things to look at and come back to, I think it, for most of us, I think it is really steadying to Yeah, to have that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Know, knowledge is power.

I think so too.

So cheesy, but it is so true.

Right.

No, I agree.

Okay.

Anything else that you wanna add to this conversation?

And then I have just one fun question I wanna ask you too before we wrap it up.

I think just, you know, I make sure everyone should be doing this, whether you're it's your first baby or your fourth baby.

Yeah.

Or you're having twins or mm-hmm.

You're high risk or low risk.

It's really a daily practice that is for every mom and every pregnancy.

So, that's right.

Tell your friends, tell your sisters, you know, really help spread the word.

Because it is proven to help improve birth outcome, so

that's right.

Why don't you also tell us, like the app where to find you, things like that so people can just start utilizing your app and go, go to that.

Sure.

So again, our app is Count the Kicks, mm-hmm.

In the app store in both Android and iOS.

It's got kind of a bright yellow, mm-hmm.

Background, sunburst background with a, a red clock.

And we're also@countthekicks.org.

And then we are on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube, all of the social media channels.

So would love for you all to follow us and, we share lots of great kick counting information and education, and encouragement there as well.

Perfect.

We will include all of those in the show notes too, so you guys can just click in there and just grab what you wanna do.

Okay, last question's just for you.

Okay.

What is something in your life?

It doesn't have to be related to our conversation.

Anything big or small that's just sparking like a ton of joy Right now?

I'm giving you a lot of life.

Goodness.

That's a hard question.

I, I think summer, like summer is just kind of magical.

It's just the special time when.

It life is a little bit more relaxed and you can kind of do some fun outdoor activities.

I, we live in Iowa and so our winters are very long and cold.

Yeah.

And summer just feels like this lovely gift that we get to have and enjoy together.

So.

I've been doing a lot of bike riding with my boys and we got tickets to the local amusement park, so we've been going there and going to the water park.

So, summer and summer activities are something that's given me a lot of joy right now.

I love it and I agree that like relaxation level, I think about it a lot with my kids.

I think, oh, we're gonna get 'em to bed, you know, on time every night.

And I'm like, that's eight 30, it's nine, it's nine 30 and I have a 1-year-old, like, these kids should be in bed.

But it's just like, somehow we ended up riding our bike and then we ate dinner late and, and you just kind of don't care even though there can be implications to it.

Yeah, because it just feels different when the sun's shining in it's summer.

So, so it does feels long day resonate with magical.

They are.

They are.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much, Kimberly.

I know that this is super valuable and so I just appreciate you coming on here and giving us a lot of clarity about something that is really, really important for all of us.

So thank you.

Thank you, lo, we're really excited to be able to share this with your listener.

Yeah, of course.

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