Motherhood is all consuming.

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is.

I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this.

And we're leaning into that truth here with the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and practical applications.

Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

This is the lo and behold podcast.

I am so excited to get in today's conversation with my guest today and with you.

I have Hehe Stewart here with me.

He, he is a leading childbirth educator advocate and maternity care reform expert.

She has a master's in human development.

She has over a decade of experience in empowering families with evidence-based birth prep, informed decision making and post.

Part in readiness.

She is a fierce advocate for informed consent.

You will find that out very quickly if you follow her on any of her social platforms, reducing unnecessary interventions, and then ensuring your autonomy, patient autonomy, and birth.

Beyond working with families, this is a cool extra that she does.

She's actively involved in legislative efforts.

To improve women's health practices and expand access to midwifery care.

She works to reform midwifery care by advocating for patients' rights, increasing birth options, and then just improving, of course, overall maternal health outcomes.

She's also the host of the Birth Lounge podcast, so definitely check her out over there.

She interviews, leading experts in pregnancy, women's health and newborn development.

She gives parents, you know, the knowledge that they need to navigate their birth, their postpartums with.

Their own confidence then her work just continues to drive meaningful change through education, advocacy, and policy reform.

Like I just talked about.

he personally is also pregnant right now with her first two, so we are going to get into all of that as well.

He, he, I am so excited to get to talk with you.

We have been planning this for quite a few months.

Why don't you introduce yourself.

I kind of already said some of your official stuff, but say whatever you want about who you are and what you do, and then we'll just get into it.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, truly, it's such an honor to be here.

It's just so exciting and yeah, I'm excited to just connect with you and your listeners and, be here.

What a joy.

I'm Hehe.

I'm the founder of a maternity concierge here in Boston, and that's how my career got started in the birth world.

Then I transitioned to online education, which is the birth lounge.

And then I started a podcast and now I'm just like so engulfed in the birth world that I do legislative work and I travel around and I speak and, still attend labors and do overnight care and lactation support and newborn support.

I just am.

I eat, sleep, breathe, bleed, birth work all the time.

And I honestly could not imagine my life without it.

And it's really fun because now I'm having my own baby and I've been able to apply these same things to my life, which is just, you know, it's like a convergence of.

Two worlds like my, mm-hmm.

My career oriented world and then my actual, real life.

And it has just been the sweetest, most harmonious walk ever.

I, I love being pregnant.

I could have a million children.

I love that because you haven't yet gone through birth.

I'm sure you are going to enjoy it and find a ton of incredible things inside of it, but clearly you love being pregnant.

If right now you're saying, I could have a million children, I agree.

I could have a million children too.

Actually raising them all has been, you know, like, oh wow.

The reality of that and the cost of that is.

Like actually not practical to have tons and tons and tons, but being pregnant.

Yeah, I what you said about that, like the convergence of like work and life and passion.

I, I feel the same.

'cause I'd been working as a nurse on the floor in labor delivery postpartum when I was getting pregnant too, and it's.

I remember I had patients who would look at me and go, oh, how many kids do you have?

And when I said zero, I felt like I like fell down a notch.

And any of you out there who don't have kids yet and you are on birth work?

I am not.

I don't agree with this.

I think you can be an incredible birth worker without having like gone through birth.

But man, it was nice to be able to say, I do have a kid.

Like I have gone through what you're going through.

I do understand what you're.

Like where you're coming from or why you're asking me X, Y, z in that way of mom and not like just educator, professional.

And, and again, like I don't necessarily know that that makes you better at your work, but it is.

It's just this other layer that it does add and it's pretty, it's pretty fun to walk through it when you've been living and breathing it for so long.

Kind of from a different side of it, I guess, if you'll,

yeah, I have found.

I found a couple of different things actually.

So first I have found that I.

Wished that I had been a little bit more compassionate to the things that I used to label like Par for the course, right?

Mm-hmm.

And not in a way that I ever sloughed clients off or I ever made them feel as if it was silly, but just to reassure them a little bit more than just like, yeah, that's totally normal.

Like this is to be expected.

Here are a couple things to make it easier.

I wish I had said things like.

That is really, really hard.

Like, that's just hard.

I wish I had validated them a little bit more in just kind of the hardness of things.

And I think for me too, because I know so much I have found myself waiting for the other shoe to drop, if you will.

Like, for example, I never had any morning sickness, and so for the first 16 to 20 weeks.

Every day I would be like, I wonder if today's gonna be the day that I get nauseous.

Like I wonder if today is gonna be the day that I get nauseous.

And the same thing with heartburn and backaches.

I just keep waiting for that stuff to emerge.

I'm really lucky that.

It hasn't so far.

Mm-hmm.

But it is always in the back of my mind of like, all right, is today gonna be the day that, you know, sciatica shows up or, you know, hypertension pops its head into my story.

Fingers crossed that none of that happens.

Yeah.

But, you know, I think a lot of people who aren't in birth work get to kind of go through it.

Almost lada where you don't necessarily know what is possible to come into your story.

Where I'm the opposite.

I kind of know the plethora of things that may pop into your story.

So it's just got me thinking from a different angle, which is both really cool.

And you know, it's not a burden.

I don't ever feel like, oh, that's too heavy.

It just is extra mental load that I think people who aren't in birth work maybe don't experience.

Yeah, a hundred.

I a hundred percent agree.

I remember those same feelings with my pregnancies too, of like knowing so much is such a gift.

Like I would choose to know everything I know every single time.

Me too.

But there is, like you said, this extra layer that it adds of.

Knowing all the things that could come up.

You know, sometimes I think people are like, oh, I feel safe after week 13, or the ultrasound at 20 weeks looked great.

So we're in the clear and like, I want you to feel that way.

I don't want anyone to live in fear, so like don't go looking for knowledge to then like.

Hold over yourself during your pregnancy to terrify you the whole time.

But I do think when you just know and you've seen so many of the little particulars, or you just know so intimately, like the possibilities, it, it, it is an interesting place to be pregnant inside of and just not necessarily like dwell on, oh, like this is what I am going to do if X, y, Z happens.

But just to have that little bit of awareness that like.

I would, I would have a plan.

I do have some ideas, like I'm not sitting over here not considering X, Y, Z at all.

Yeah.

It's just a weird place to be in and I, I have felt that every single time and I think I'll be curious to see if you feel it in your birth as well, because I always feel like there's this moment almost where the nurse like really turns off and I'm just in it as like the woman and the mother.

But then I'll think back and there will be these like brief snatches of where I can still remember like I'm complete and pushing and I like remember listening to the baby's heart tone or some, you know what I mean?

Like it's still, I still actually didn't turn it off, so like, I think I did, but I didn't.

But it didn't hurt me.

I think it did help me, but yeah, it, I'm sure you'll, you'll, you'll potentially have some of those moments as well where you're, he, he, the doula and he, he the woman in labor and it's, it's a, it's like a very interesting, cool way to experience birth and kind of be like dancing between both of those things.

Yeah, it's another place where it's kind of a convergence of two worlds.

Yeah.

I was telling my midwife when she was last at my, at my home, so we're having a home birth.

So our midwife comes our home to, to see us and you know, she was asking me kind of about this, she was like, how has it been having all this knowledge?

Are you finding that it is comforting or causing you anxiety?

I want to really make sure that in the weeks leading up to your birth, that we're doing a lot of work.

To make sure that you're able to step out of that doula role and step into that mom role.

And you are not trying to control the situation as a doula.

That's why you've hired us.

That's why you have your husband, that's why you have doulas.

And I was like, yep, that is a really interesting thing.

I'm gonna start working on that.

But one thing that continues to come up for me is because I'm so comfortable with birth.

I always am second guessing.

Am I being too lax?

Am I kind of dismissing things that would otherwise be a problem?

And I don't think I am, but it is always nice for me to just text my midwives or text my doulas and say like, I think this is what's going on.

But that sounds right to you guys.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

And they're like, yes, absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

So it's just really weird that you can know so much and have done this for a decade or more and still have questions when you apply it to yourself.

It's just really wild.

It's so crazy.

I mean, being the person, like in the driver's seat or whatever, however you wanna say that.

It's just different though, like Yeah, it is.

Even when, going back to what you said about.

like, I wish I had kind of validated a little more, or, or really like heard or seen them.

I think when you are in it too, it's that same of like, I'm just processing this as like a human being, not a medical professional.

Like, what I just wanna hear is like, yeah, your thought process is great, or this is super hard and I am just so sorry that it hurts today.

You know, like, so the same for you as like.

You're allowed to wonder if X, Y, Z is normal.

You think you shouldn't, right?

Yeah.

I have a friend who just had a fourth baby and she was texting me the end of her pregnancy off and on at different times, and she was like, you would think I would know what's going on with my fourth pregnancy.

And we were always laughing about it because it's like, but it is always different.

And you will go through different things in pregnancy.

You will certainly find out that different babies you have are gonna be different and like ask different things of you or sleep different or eat different or whatever.

And so, I don't know, I think we've never really arrived.

So you have all this knowledge that says like I know a lot about birth, but then when you are like living it out, you realize, but I don't actually know everything.

Like being a human and actually experiencing it, it is a different.

I keep using the word layers, but that's like a different layer to add to the education.

And so that's new to you.

Like you right now are learning about birth as the person who is going to have it.

And, and you, you haven't done that yet, you know?

Yeah.

And then, then you'll do it with another baby and it'll be different or it'll be because you have a toddler at home.

So there's this like extra layer of what that feels like as a mother, as parents.

And so I think it's just these like new versions of you.

Going through new versions of life or labor, birth or whatever.

And so it's always gonna be that little bit of like, does this make sense here?

This is good, right?

Like constantly kind of affirming and checking, even though you are incredibly, you know, knowledgeable about quote unquote all the things or whatever.

I'm so like, I'm so excited for you.

I just think it's so cool to be where you're at and be in it in something that you love so, so much.

I wanna use that as a segue actually, because I wanna, I told you when we initially, or when I was initially chatting with you about this, I wanted to hear some light.

Almost I'm a doula and this is actually what I am doing and what, what I have decided to, to do in my pregnancy or as I prep for birth.

I think people on social media are always so curious, how those in the birth space, like actually are preparing what do you actually doing?

And I personally, like, I don't love answering the question like, Hey, did you give X, Y, Z vaccine?

And hey, did you do this and this?

And like, I always so often feel like.

It doesn't matter what I did.

I wanna help you decide what you should do, but like my decision should not impact your decision education.

Sure.

Like you decide and I want you to share whatever you're willing to share as we chat about some of this stuff.

And I do think people get really curious.

But I think maybe then my caveat would be like, what you are doing is not necessarily what everyone should be doing.

These are things you've decided to write for you, your fam, your body, your babe, and so Yeah, it's just a kind of funky space to educate from when you're like, yes, I am making choices over here that you might be making 'cause you're also pregnant like me.

Yeah.

But you shouldn't copy me essentially.

So, yeah.

Anyway.

Okay, so I do have a list.

I kind of jotted a little bit of him down.

You know, I really,

I prioritize and I deeply, deeply believe in leading people in the same way that I show up for them.

And what I mean by that is I don't ever give out advice or education that I would not be willing to do for myself.

And so when I tell people.

Like your provider is not serving you in a way that is right or compassionate, or that is actually obstetrical abuse what you are experiencing.

Mm-hmm.

I suggest that you change providers.

I say that from a place of not only recognizing.

How hard and tedious and what a mental load that would be to take that on.

But also knowing that if it was myself or my sister or my best friend, that is what they would need to do.

And so when I got pregnant.

I gotta be honest, I was really sad, and I've talked about this online.

I spent the first two weeks really sad about being pregnant because it was not our plan.

We were going to intentionally start trying a couple months later, but we fell accidentally, although we were excited.

Pregnant in February after deciding that we were gonna really start to try to expand our family in July.

And so it felt as if, you know, like, this isn't my plan.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think my very first lesson in walking the walk and talking the talk that I do online was be.

It's okay.

You don't have to like instantly be happy.

Mm-hmm.

And you can hold two things true at once.

So while I was sad that it wasn't my plan and my timing, I was over the moon that we got pregnant and that we were embarking on this new journey.

And I think a lot of times we have, you know, nuances lost a lot on social media.

And so it's like, well, if you're sad, then that means you're not happy.

Or if you are.

I'm really excited to be pregnant.

That means you're not scared.

And those two things, just all of those things can actually exist at the same time.

And so I really held space for myself to be sad that it was not my plan and it didn't go according to my personal timing, but I was also excited.

The second thing that I did that I think surprised a lot of people was that I did have that early ultrasound and I. Didn't think that I would.

I actually, when I was pregnant, I was like, I'm having one ultrasound.

That's the anatomy scan.

That's the only one I'm having.

I'm not doing anything else.

And then, my husband, Mr. Hee, he, he is in the medical field.

He's in healthcare.

He felt really strongly that we had the, the eight to 10 week scan, eight to 12 week scan, and I really put my foot down.

I said, no, I'm not doing it.

It's my body.

I don't wanna do that.

I'm not doing it.

And he was like, okay, but can we have like a little bit of a discussion about it?

Yeah.

I was like, yeah, I'm happy to, I'm happy to hear you out, buddy, but I'm not changing my mind.

And he actually brought really good questions to me and I said, okay.

We are really lucky that we have a lot of healthcare professionals in our life as close friends.

And so we consulted a couple of people and it turns out that there was some data in that scan that I did end up wanting that I don't think, mm-hmm.

That I knew I was gonna be able to get from that scan.

So we did have that one, and that was a really interesting point for me to realize.

Okay, you can change your mind at any point.

Mm-hmm.

And it really doesn't feel, or it didn't, for me, feel hard to change my mind.

It was just mainly making that shift of being open to having a conversation.

And I still reserved the right to say like, no, I still don't want this scan.

But after talking to our.

Close friends that we kind of use as confidants and, you know, we rely on to give us very neutral information when it comes to medicine.

We decided that that was right for us.

So that was, that was an interesting moment too.

And then, we did something that's a little untraditional, but I think personally should be.

Standard of care is that when we decided that we were gonna have a home birth, which I've always known I was gonna have a home birth.

So it was never a question of do I get an OB GYN or do I establish, you know, a, a hospital based relationship?

We went with co-care.

So what that means is we have a home birth team that is going to be our primary care team, and they have been our primary care team, but we also established hospital-based midwives for a couple of reasons.

Number one, it was very important to me and my husband that our lab work went through the hospital instead of a third party because we felt like the margin of error was.

Lower because the hospital has their own lab.

It's a hospital sponsored lab.

They do it every single day.

There's no mail in and mail out.

You literally go to the hospital, you get your blood drawn, they run it right there.

We felt personally, and you certainly don't have to share in this listening, but we personally feel more confident in a hospital based lab rather than a third party mail-in lab.

So that was one of the things.

The second thing was in the event of a transfer, whether that happened sometime in pregnancy or labor or even postpartum, we did not wanna be received by hospital staff that did not know us, was unfamiliar with our case, had no idea what our birth goals are, didn't know us as a couple.

And so, we established hospital based care.

We also had our scans done there.

So both our 8, 10, 12 week scan, that first scan, and our anatomy scan was done at the hospital.

And so it was read by providers that knew us, had our medical record and had seen us before.

So that was really, those were really important things.

And then.

The last thing that we really did in the first trimester that was really important to us is I only interviewed home birth midwives that were breach trained.

Okay.

I did not want a breach baby.

To transfer me to the hospital.

Mm-hmm.

For a C-section because they weren't trained in it.

Now, if I have a transverse fly baby, happy to have a C-section there.

If we get into labor and we find that the labor course is not progressing in a way that is safe any longer, happy to have a c-section there.

Based on skillset.

I did not want to be forced into a cesarean or an ECV or, you know, any, any other like medical.

Intervention based on skillset alone.

Mm-hmm.

And so when we were looking for midwives, we were looking for midwives that had certain credentials that were very important to Mr.

Hehe because of his background in healthcare.

And for me, it was really important that I had someone that was qualified to do breach birth because I personally feel okay with breach home birth.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I do have a question about that.

How did you, yeah.

When you say qualified for breach birth, did you learn this about them via like interviews or speaking with them and their own experience?

'cause obviously here in the US, like we're not qualifying anyone for breach birth anymore.

So it's just we're losing the practice as, or art even of it.

so is this just what you would learn when talking to them?

About their experience with it and their comfort level with it and all of

that.

Yeah.

So some people had it published on their website, And so they went to the top of our list, and especially if they had their credentials listed on their website, and then we could cross reference that, so, mm-hmm.

When you have a licensed midwife, you can actually look up in the database, just like you can for nurses and for physicians.

There are databases that will keep up with the licensure and so.

Our very first step was to make sure that their license was up to date, and that they truly held a license.

That is not breach, obviously, like what you said, like we don't license anyone for breach, and so people would either publish what they had done for breach, or in our interview we would ask, do you have any breach training?

Yes I do.

No, I don't.

If they did, we would say, tell us about your breach training.

Where did you take it through?

How long ago was that?

What are you doing to keep up those credentials?

How many breach births have you attended?

When was the last one that you attended?

Out of all of the ones that you have attended?

Help us understand which ones transferred and which ones were born successfully at home.

And then we also looked at transfer rate for non breach births too.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think a lot of people think a 0% transfer rate is awesome.

And for me that is scary.

You don't want a home birth midwife that never, ever transfers because.

That's just unrealistic.

To be honest, not all home home births are gonna transpire as a successful home birth.

And so we felt comfortable with anywhere from a five to 15% transfer rate.

And when we interviewed the midwife that we hired, she shared her her rate and it was right in the middle of that.

She said, I transfer anywhere from like 10 to 12% of the time.

And she said, you know, very few of those are emergency.

Almost all of them are for pain relief and rest.

And she said, it's.

It's a discussion between us, and, and we kind of just decide like, now's a good time to go in.

And the other thing that she said that really gave us a lot of comfort was that.

She proactively transfers.

And so she said, I'm not gonna wait for an emergency to happen.

And she said, that doesn't mean that emergencies don't come up and we do have emergency transfers that unpr preventable.

She said, but if I can see that we are starting to have an infection brew, you are starting to slow down and lose steam.

Your baby is starting to look a little funky, like still very strong, but I'm noticing different patterns.

She said, my just preference is to go ahead and get you to the hospital so that we can avoid any sort of emergency.

Mm-hmm.

Obviously as the mom, that made me feel really good.

And then I think my husband felt very comforted by that.

Just, He's also been an EMT for nearly 15 years and so, you know, when you talk about emergencies.

He has seen a lot.

And so I think just for both of us, it was really, really comforting to hear that she is not gonna wait until things are so bad where she is transferring to a place where I'm barely hanging on.

Our baby needs emergency support, which is the worst nightmare for everybody.

Right.

It's a worst nightmare for me and my husband.

It's the worst nightmare for a baby and the hospital staff that receives you.

It's just.

It's not fair to them either.

Yeah, it's hard.

It's interesting to think about that idea of providers who have like 0% rates on transfer, or if they're like, oh, I never do a episiotomy.

You know, something like that where you're like, that's actually a red flag, right?

That there could be a. I'm gonna say like a pridefulness there, that they think that they are the best at what they're doing, that they don't ever need support, that they actually can figure everything out on their own.

Like those are not great indicators for a birth provider, a team, because the reality is like we're all humans, which means like there's gonna be imperfections and nuances show up, and we almost universally are going to need to sometimes go, Hey, I need help here.

Or like, Hey, I shouldn't repair this.

Laceration.

It's too big.

I think I should ask someone more skilled.

You know, like, so that idea of a midwife, you know, a home birth midwife saying, oh, my transfer rate is super low, like one to 2% or whatever.

It's like, I think that might mean you're not transferring all the time when you should be, which feels like you shouldn't feel that way, right?

You believe in home birth, you want home birth, you believe it's safe.

So then you're like, oh, great, like we're never transferring to the hospital.

But also like that means maybe we're not recognizing the realities that you said of like.

Actually emergencies do happen, so we're gonna say, yeah, they happen.

Sometimes they're un unpreventable or unavoidable and yeah, we take care of them responsibly and safely and, and yeah, it's just, I think sometimes people go, oh, those numbers are great.

And sometimes you almost have to like flip that combo around and go like, are those too low or too good?

Which is annoying as a consumer or a client or a patient, but, but there is a lot of thoughtfulness that has to go into assessing.

Kind of what a provider tells you, maybe their rates are for X, Y, Z, or how they use the word, I never, or I always like that vocabulary.

That's what I was gonna say.

It's almost like the absolute language.

Like you, you don't want mm-hmm.

A provider that says, well, I never do this or I always do this.

It's like, well, where's the nuance?

Where's the individualized care there?

I don't believe in a hundred percent and 0%.

I just don't believe those two things exist.

There will always be at least one outlier of someone who needed something or didn't need something that almost everyone has.

And so zero in a hundred just really don't exist.

Mm-hmm.

Just like always and never really, if you think about it, don't ever exist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think for you guys all listening just to, if you hear those words being thrown around by people supporting you in your birth or postpartum, just to, yeah, he's like making symbols like alert.

Alert.

But yeah, to just have that and it might be fine.

Maybe they're saying something lovely, like, I will always listen to you.

Okay, yeah.

Obviously we wanna hear that, but just have kind of almost like trigger words, right?

Where you're like, oh wait, what did they just say?

Am I actually comfortable with the way they just presented that and told it to me with an absolute attached?

Yeah.

Okay.

So let's see.

That has you prep for birth prep, for your home birth?

Anything as you're getting closer?

'cause I know we're getting closer to actually meeting this babe.

That you're really doing like really specifically in regards to like mind, body, to actually prepare for.

This labor process and ideally like doing it the way that you hope to do it?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think being really mindful is something that has been on my mind the whole time.

So I have incorporated a meditation process and I did this right when I found out I was pregnant.

Every morning and every night I take just a few minutes and sometimes it's 10 minutes, sometimes it's.

Literally 90 seconds.

Mm-hmm.

To just put my hands on my belly and connect with our baby.

And, I typically thank them for being through the day with me.

Like, thanks for being here with me today.

And if we had a stressful day, I'll, I'll recognize that and say like, I know that we had a really stressful day today.

I appreciate you hanging with me, buddy.

And, you know, we're gonna give it a go tomorrow.

Or I might say something like, last night my little meditation was like, I know today was really long.

You did an awesome job.

This week is kind of tough on us, but if we get to the weekend, we're gonna have a lot of fun and rest and relaxation.

And you know, it's kind of funny, I don't know if it's laying.

Down, or if it's because my body's finally relaxed, but when I do this, the baby always kicks around and so it makes me feel as if we're like really connected and almost like they're talking back to me.

So, mm-hmm.

That's been really fun.

Intentionally stretching in ways that open up the pelvis.

Not necessarily strength training.

So I did a lot of that in the first and second trimester, but now that we're in the third trimester, it's a lot of lengthening, mm-hmm.

Which I think a lot of people maybe forget or don't think about.

So it's a lot of internal rotation and this gentle stretching.

I'll do that throughout the day, sitting on my birth ball.

I do have a care team of chiropractics, acupuncture, and PFPT, which is pelvic floor physical therapy.

I've seen a functional movement therapist a couple of times throughout pregnancy just to make sure that, you know, as I'm moving with this bigger belly and as my body is compensating for the growth and, the center of gravity being pulled mm-hmm.

To the front.

That I'm moving in a way that is conducive to safe movement, so I'm not moving in a way that's stressing out my lower back or not moving in a way that is going to, you know.

I guess hurt my shoulders.

There's just a lot of work that we've been doing to make sure that it's, ergonomic, if you will.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And then I think walking every day.

So I did choose to do A CGM, which is a continuous glucose monitor for 14 days instead of the traditional G test.

Mm-hmm.

And one of the things that I learned in the first trimester was that if you will walk each day.

Especially right after your meals, even if it's just 10 minutes, that it'll help you balance your blood sugar.

And so I've been really intentional about that.

I walk a lot every day.

If I don't have time to truly go on a walk, then I will make sure that I just hop on my walking pad for about 10 minutes after I eat, especially those carby carb heavy meals.

So pasta or like bread.

And I'll walk it out and, we just got our GD test results back and I don't have gestational diabetes, so Yay.

I personally feel like it worked.

Which not to say anyone listening, like walking is the surefire way to not have gestational diabetes.

Right?

Like a lot of that is your placenta and a lot of that is hormones and genetics and, there's a lot of influences, but I do feel like being active.

Helped balance my blood sugar.

And the CGM for me was the right choice because it, it gave me real time data, it connected to an app to my phone, and I could see exactly what the foods I was eating was doing to my blood sugar.

And so I was able to accommodate that.

And I actually wore a CGM in the first trimester.

To learn about what were foods doing to my blood sugar, because I had never paid attention to that before.

I had never looked into blood sugar, had never paid attention to what I ate.

I just always ate kind of clean and healthy.

But funny story about that is I didn't really, you know, you always think like, oh, I'm, I'm eating so clean and healthy.

I, in the first trimester had, biscuits.

And yogurt in the morning for breakfast, and it was like a biscuit with butter and jelly.

And I, in my brain was like, this is so healthy.

I am doing so good.

Yeah, you're laughing because you're like, wow.

What did that do to your blood sugar?

Well, it spiked it and I, well, and yogurt so good.

I mean, I had no idea, right?

Like, yeah.

Well, in my mind it was like, it was Greek yogurt.

It was 14 grams of protein.

That was my protein.

The bread was just like yummy.

I love biscuits.

I'm from this.

South.

Right.

And I didn't realize like.

There are different types of proteins.

So like, yes, you're getting 14 grams of protein with your Greek yogurt, but all that sugar.

Whereas if you would eat meat or vegetables first or, I learned actually to have water first.

Mm-hmm.

And forego my coffee.

So my, my routine is water eat coffee, where pre-pregnancy I would wake up and have, you know, a cup of coffee on an empty belly.

So it's just been little shifts like that that have helped me.

And I think really getting to learn my body with that CGM was so empowering because now I, I know kind of what to eat, even though I thought I had a pretty good handle on it.

It changed a lot, obviously, because you know that biscuit, it'll get you

okay.

But if you're in your first try and all you can stomach is biscuits, it's okay if you need to eat biscuits.

Oh, really?

You said you weren't sick, so that means you could have been eating anything.

Totally.

Maybe not a biscuit every day.

I mean, it's such a, that's like such a balance too, and I think first trimester a lot of times.

Probably not you.

I actually, my first pregnancy, I felt incredible too.

Like you, I kept looking around like, this is great.

I remember my last shift.

I was like 39 and change, and I worked 14 hours.

Like I literally felt.

Amazing.

Amazing.

And was like, yeah, I have this belly, but whatever.

But I do think people take out a lot of shame in the first try sometimes of like, I can't eat nothing.

I like, I know it matters and I wanna be better.

And, and it's just like you, if that's what you can do, that's what you can do.

Like ideally you're gonna feel better soon, you can eat better.

And there are things you can do, you know, to try and like limit the nausea you're experiencing.

You know, you can try to not have empty belly or small meal, whatever.

There's a lot of stuff we could talk about there, but I do think sometimes it is like, I ate biscuits for four weeks and, and then I felt better and, and sometimes like hopefully that's, you're trying and that's what happens.

So might not be true for you, but for some people I think that that is.

The truth.

And I guess I'm just saying, you know, that's okay.

I think you can pay attention to what's going on and, you know, know that there's like better ways to serve your body, but you might not always be able to do them in that immediate moment.

And that's, that's all right.

Yeah.

And it's also more big picture, right?

So like, if you are.

So sick in the first trimester.

Yeah.

It really is survival.

And that's akay.

Mm-hmm.

Keep yourself nourished in the ways that you can.

Mm-hmm.

We've got the second and third trimester to make up for that.

I just went through this when I had, eight weeks of consistent travel and I.

You know, I kept having these recurrent thoughts of like, I'm really not eating as well as I should, because I'm in an airport twice a week.

Mm-hmm.

I'm traveling at least once a week, which means I'm in an airport to fly out to wherever I'm going.

And then a couple days later I'm back in the airport flying back home and, you know, airport food is lacking.

It's so hard.

Um, And it was really nice to have my husband remind me like.

This is one day out of the week, or this is two days out of the week when you're home or when you're at your destination, you're still eating really, really well.

So don't dwell on one trimester.

Mm-hmm.

Or don't dwell on one day out of the week that you didn't eat well or that you had a lot of sugar or, you didn't hit your protein intake more.

So think about in the last four weeks have I hit.

80% of my goals Great.

In the last trimester, have I done really well?

More than I have not done well than awesome.

You are succeeding.

That's good.

And the same thing with prenatal.

So that is another thing I have found it so challenging to remember to take a prenatal.

Mm-hmm.

I know how important they are.

I'm always telling people like, take your prenatal.

Take your prenatal.

And then I will get to the end of the day, I'll literally climb in bed and I'm like, crap, I did not take my prenatal today.

Mm-hmm.

And then it's a, you know, mental struggle of like, do I get out of bed?

Because that's an Olympic sport.

It's like, do I get all the way outta bed with this heavy belly walk all the way downstairs?

My prenatal is a powder, so I need to put it in milk.

So do I make the prenatal drink that fast, come all the way up, try and get comfortable again?

So it's, you know, again, we are striving for that 80 20 split.

Yeah.

Or some days I'm literally just striving for 51%.

Yeah.

If I did better than I did not, then I'm happy with myself.

That's perfect.

I'll just give you some advice and say, pull that into motherhood once baby is here too, because, and maybe sometimes you won't even hit 51 49 and that's okay too.

Sometimes it's literally like, did everyone survive today?

Great.

We're all alive.

Wonderful.

Yep.

Yep.

We're loved.

We're here.

It's great.

I know.

Okay, so I know you mentioned you're in third, you're in your third try, so we're kind of getting to that, like, okay, we're getting close.

Anything specific where you're like, I love this.

I'm going to eat those dates.

I don't know, whatever.

As you get kind of closer to that, we'll call it like that end point where people are really thinking about, I want my body ready to go into labor.

I want, you know, physically, mentally.

What you're eating, whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well I am on my birth ball right now as we record, so I spend a lot of time on my birth ball just getting, you know, the hips aligned and, and loose and, I think posture's been a lot on my mind.

Mm-hmm.

While I. Have breach trained providers, I don't necessarily want to have to use those skills of theirs.

Yeah, I'd love to have just a regular head down baby.

It's nice to know they have those skills, should we need them, but I am doing what I can to try and keep baby head down.

We do have a confirmed head down baby right now.

I think as far as eating.

I'm really just focusing on protein a lot.

Yeah.

And as far as incorporating those kind of traditional, you know, birth prep things, I haven't done it yet.

I love dates outside of pregnancy.

It's just a fruit that I like.

So I will incorporate those.

There are some really fun recipes out there.

So like the dates that you can turn into Snickers or, you know, covering them in in chocolate and season.

Salt or whatever.

So I'll give those a go.

I have started drinking no tea.

Mm-hmm.

Which is nettles oat straw or oat red raspberry leaf tea and alfalfa.

It's good.

It's a uterine toner for anyone out there listening that's like, what is no tea?

Yeah.

Very similar to red raspberry leaf tea, but just has a couple of other ingredients in it.

I find that it's yummy, but I'm a big tea drinker, so if you don't like those kind of earthy flavors, feel free to add it to some lemonade or add some honey to it or whatever you wanna make to, to make it delicious.

And then, yeah, I think just, just hydration.

I recently switched from salt based.

Hydration packets to plant-based hydration.

Mm-hmm.

Which is coconut water or, that's what I've chosen because I was noticing at the end of the day, a little swelling.

Not anything concerning or uncomfortable.

My blood pressure was totally fine.

It was mainly like my toes and my ankles and I had been sitting for the most part.

So it's not like I was on my feet either.

But I did find that switching to coconut water has almost completely decreased that.

And then another thing that I've incorporated is doing, just like legs up the wall.

I'll do that at least once a day, usually around the middle of the day.

So I go and lie on our bed.

The head of our bed is backed up to a wall, and so I will put my butt against the wall, kind of where our pillows typically are, and I'll put my legs straight up against the wall where they are pointed, where my feet are pointed towards the ceiling.

And that way it just gives my legs, some drainage.

Not only does it help kind of the blood flow and circulation, but that lymphatic drainage as well.

And so that has helped too.

So, yeah.

You know, protein is, is kind of the hardest thing to get in.

So I do protein powders at least once a day, sometimes twice a day just to help.

Mm-hmm.

Get me over the edge of, of what I'm doing.

And it's based on your weight, so you should be eating protein based on the size of your body.

Mm-hmm.

And that's kind of, that's kind of what you need.

Yeah.

I did a interview a while ago with Lily Nichols and she was talking, we were talking a lot about the protein thing.

Mm-hmm.

And just how it's just so important and we know that and we hear it, but actually like getting what you need can be just so hard.

So we chatted a little bit about like.

If it's, is it okay if I have to do, you know, powders if I literally can't get it all?

And well, yes, I get that it's better if it's coming from food, but isn't it, you know, better to just get enough.

And if that means you're eating a protein bar sometimes, like that's, that's what that has to look like too.

And so I think it's another one of those, like we're trying to do the best we can here, which means like if we're trying to get enough protein, however you can get it, great.

Like just try to get that protein.

And that's kind of like the overall, the big goal for sure.

Totally.

That's, you know, it goes back to the, that like 80 20, like, are you doing better than you're not?

And for me, protein powder is just such an easy way to get it in.

Of course I recognize that if I could eat a big chunk of meat three times a day, that'd be great, but mm-hmm.

That's just not feasible for me.

It is actually so hard to hit protein goals.

And again, for someone who, if you're like me and you're like, I've never really thought about what I ate, I just kind of intuitively ate.

And you're now trying to pay attention to all these things.

It's, it's daunting.

I mean, it can just feel like a lot of mental health.

There was a period in my pregnancy where I was calculating like, all right, am I hitting my goals?

And it's just a lot, like at the end of the day, I'd be like, all right, well I'm still 21 grams four.

Like I need to have a protein shake, you know?

And so.

There's a balance there too.

Like you don't want to, you don't wanna be driving yourself nuts mentally of like, oh my gosh, I'm three and a half grams short.

Like, okay, that is probably totally fine.

But if you get to the end of the day and you're 40 grams short, that's kind of a lot, you know, that's like a piece of chicken, or that is maybe two scoops of your protein powder, so, mm-hmm.

finding that balance can be challenging for sure.

Uh, balance.

Balance in mother, what is it?

Balance in everything.

Okay.

That's like kind of a good segue.

We really should wrap it up, but I wanted to talk to you about this like really quickly.

One of the things I love about how you show up online.

Is one, you've said it in this conversation already about how you like walk the walk and talk the talk, like that it all goes together.

And two, a while ago I watched you, you did a, something in your stories like ask me anything or, or assumptions you have about me.

And it was funny 'cause I think you got, I don't remember a specifically, but I feel like someone was like, you're really conservative.

And then someone was like, you're really liberal and then you did this.

Post the other, and I'm not gonna ask you to tell us your political leanings, but, and then you did this post the other day, one of those like, you know, if I wasn't scared to offend you, here's some things I would tell you.

And I think those are so interesting and kind of part of this conversation of like people trying to figure out like.

Who you are or where you're coming from.

And I feel like you're constantly, almost like, I don't want you to know, like what I, I've heard you say like, I listen to people from all sides of the spectrum.

I guess I would say like politically and as it impacts, you know, your work and what you do.

And then in this post as well, I felt like it was like, some people might think this seems a little conservative.

Some people might think this seems a little liberal.

So I guess the question in that is, like what's.

What's the goal there for you both as a person and as an educator of kind of like dancing between all of that and, and, and being like, I guess, a well-rounded person and educator?

Well, thank you for that.

I, I really do take, I take that as a big compliment.

For me it's neutrality.

It's just safety.

It's that you should be able to come to me and know that you can be on the far right of the political spectrum and.

You're safe with me and in the very next call that I have, someone on the far left of the political spectrum can come to me and they're equally, safe with me.

Yeah.

Someone who believes deeply in pro-life agenda is very safe with me and someone who believes deeply in pro-choice agenda is very safe with me.

Mm-hmm.

Do not judge people.

And I know that there's a lot of people out there who actually say that and they don't mean it.

I actually do mean that.

There is never a time where I look at someone, I'm like, wow, I am judging you so hard.

It is typically for me, it's like, wow, I feel so honored that this person feels safe enough to share this part of themselves with me.

How can I show up and serve them in a way?

That will help make their life better, that will help make their pregnancy easier, that will help empower them to have the birth that they want.

And I think something that, you know, is lost a lot in the conversation of neutrality is that, especially now, we just have such a tough climate of everything.

Mm-hmm.

Healthcare, political, just like trying to get along as humans.

Is that.

I am truly able to have and hold my own personal beliefs and check those at the door, and they have absolutely no bearing on the way that I show up for people and I serve them.

I won't say that that doesn't impact the way I vote.

I mean, I'm, I deeply, deeply believe in women's rights.

I deeply, deeply believe in the freedom of choice.

And so people often are very confused about that, and they're like, well, how can you be?

Both of those things.

And I'm like, well, if you think about it, they're actually quite similar.

If I believe in the freedom of choice, then I believe that women have the right to choose.

And that means everything.

Choose what goes on in your labor.

Choose how you grow your family, choose your contraceptive.

Choose whether you wanna work or be home.

I think unfortunately.

It's just kind of the way that society is right now, that those things feel opposing.

But once you get down to the nitty gritty of it, they actually are very aligned.

I think also when people hear freedom of choice, you either think like, yes, she is, you know, she believes in abortion, the right to abortion.

But on the opposite end of that spectrum, I also believe that you have the right to.

Accept delay or decline vaccinations, which for a lot of people are opposing views, but it comes down to me, for me to the fact that I genuinely believe you and I trust you to make decisions for yourself.

And so when it comes to your reproductive healthcare, when it comes to making decisions and your labor when it comes to, your family's healthcare, I believe and trust you to make the decision that is right for you.

Now, what I will say is.

Not everybody has all of the information to be able to do that.

And that's where I think the systems fail a lot, is that people are often making decisions based on limited data and limited knowledge.

And so my goal is to make sure that you have a hundred percent of the knowledge and the education and the resources and the information, and that way I know that you can make the decision that's best for you.

What I hate to see is when people only have 50% of the story and they make a decision.

And then they later find out like, oh, well I, I would've made a different decision if I had known X, Y, and Z. And so my job or how I view my job is to teach you A through Z. And then you're able to kind of show up and make the decisions for yourself and your family, your birth and your baby, that feel good to you.

And I'll support that.

Whether that is changing providers requesting a procedure that you didn't think you would want, requesting a procedure that your doctor is saying you don't need declining a, a procedure or an intervention that your doctor is suggesting.

Or just simply saying, not right now.

I still would like some time to think about this before I make my decision, even though I hear you very clearly on what your clinical recommendation is.

I still would like some more time.

So, yeah, for me it's, it's all about neutrality and that you can come to me from any walk of life, from any background, with any problem, with any goal.

And not only are you safe with me, but I'm truly gonna give you really unbiased care.

I'm just gonna tell you what your options are and what the data we have and where that data.

Leaves gaps, right?

So what does the data not give us?

What data do we not have, especially in women's health?

I mean, there's so many times where I say like, well, we have this data, but what it doesn't share and what it doesn't tell us is X, Y, and Z. So.

Just consider that, you know, and people might say like, well, where do I find that data?

And I'm like, unfortunately.

Well, yeah, it doesn't exist, you know?

And so then you're kind of left to your own devices of what risk are you willing to take on and what benefits are you willing to take on, and where do you fall in your decision making process?

And you can trust that I'm gonna support you in that.

Mm-hmm.

Thanks for sharing all that.

I like, just love watching people try to figure.

Figure people out sometimes online and you're like, I'm not, that's not the point.

I think it's kind of what I hear you saying, like the point is you.

Mm-hmm.

And I am available to you, whoever you are.

And I think that you can see that kind of in your.

In your account sometimes and in your soc social spaces.

So if that's the goal and that's how you wanna show up, you're doing it.

Thank

you so much.

Yeah, well I feel very seen and heard and yeah, that is the point.

The point is that my personal beliefs don't have any bearing on what you should choose and.

I'm still gonna show up every day and give you the education that you need and I'm gonna support your choices that are best for you.

'cause this is your life.

It's for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I will drop all of it in the show notes 'cause I know, but why don't you just really briefly share like your Instagram, handle, your website, and then we'll have it down there for them too.

Sure.

Absolutely.

So you can find me on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and all the things.

Yeah.

At Tranquility by Hei.

My podcast is the Birth Lounge podcast.

Mm-hmm.

And then my childbirth education is the birth lounge, and you can find that@thebirthlounge.com slash

join.

Okay, perfect.

And then I ask everyone this when we jump off this call, what's something in your life right now that's sparking joy for you?

It does, it can be anything big spa.

This pregnancy has just made me so joyful.

I love it so much.

I love being pregnant, and I'm actually genuinely excited to give birth.

Mm-hmm.

So, yay.

Yay.

Well, I love giving birth, so I would do it over and over again, and I must.

Sue me.

I feel like you're gonna feel the same, so I'm super excited for you.

Maybe after the baby is born, someday down the line, you can come back and share your birth story.

'cause I love to hear a good birth story too.

Thank you so much for chatting with me.

It's so fun to talk to you and really just to talk to someone who is so clearly, so passionate about what they do.

It's a lot of fun.

Oh,

so thanks.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for letting me hang out with you guys of.

Thank you so much for listening to the Lo and Behold podcast.

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