Motherhood is all consuming.

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is, I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next time questioning.

My life choices.

I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this, and we're leaning into that truth here.

With the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and Practical Applications.

Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

This is the lo and behold podcast.

I have got a birth story for you guys today in this episode, and as I keep saying every single time my intro, my birth story, guests, birth stories are just some of my favorite conversations to have, and I will never get tired of them.

Sometimes I still kind of feel like I can't believe I get to sit here and chat with people and just hear them talk about one of my favorite things ever.

Honestly, not just me having babies, but you having babies.

I feel so privileged every time I get to have these chats and even more privileged that I get to share these with you and that these moms and these parents are willing to be vulnerable and share all of this with the world.

So I'm not gonna share any more details.

I don't wanna steal her story, but I will say that I am just so proud of this.

Mama.

Let's get into this conversation with one of my students.

Caroline, good morning, Caroline.

I am so glad to have you with me this morning.

Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself a little more personally.

I introduced you a little bit when we started, and then we'll just get straight into your birth story.

Yeah, good morning.

It's really good to be here.

My name is Caroline.

I am a first time mom.

I'm 36.

I was 35 when I, had my baby girl.

She's nine months old.

And I live in a little town outside of, oh, it's not a little town, but outside of Dallas, Texas.

So there are no little towns outside of Dallas.

No.

But yeah, I, first time mom, like I said, and, A Labor mama on Instagram was where I initially.

Found you and, took your course and just tried to soak up all of the information and education that I could.

And I just really loved, your course and your Instagram page because I felt like I had a really balanced view of everything and all of my options.

And nothing was really pushed as, this is the way, and this is what you should do, but this is what you could do.

And these are the pros and cons of every decision.

So.

I love it.

So good to hear.

Okay.

Well, we're just gonna get into that birth story, but why don't we start with maybe even getting pregnant for, if there were any fertility things, kind of just that whole process when you guys got started.

Yeah, I, so I actually have PCOS.

Mm-hmm.

So we were.

Not super careful.

And I just kind of thought, you're not gonna get pregnant that easily.

And then lo and behold, three months later, in January I got pregnant and we were both kind of shocked, but we were really happy 'cause it was definitely something that we both wanted.

I do, I kind of feel bad saying that because I.

Having PCOS and having friends and family members that have PCOS that did struggle, trying to conceive.

I, it did happen pretty easily for us.

But I know that that is a big heartache and a big struggle for some other people.

I will say that pregnancy, for me, it was really great.

I loved being pregnant.

You know, I, I did not have a lot of morning sickness.

I did have, know.

Various aches and pains, but nothing major that came along with pregnancy.

Everything just really rocked and rolled along smoothly.

We, we had one little scare when I was nine weeks pregnant and, bleeding and turns out that I had a, I hope I'm gonna get this right, a chorionic tear.

Subc Chorionic hemorrhage, subc sub subc hemorrhage.

Yes.

Something like that.

And they were like, you know, we're, it's, it's very slight.

We're just gonna watch it.

This is why you're noticing some bleeding.

But you know, the baby's still healthy still.

Okay.

And it did resolve itself within two weeks, which they had kind of said, happens a lot.

Mm-hmm.

But other than that, everything went really smoothly.

At 39 weeks.

For, you know, really 37, 38 weeks.

When I started seeing my, obstetrician every week, she was like, okay, let's talk about birth plans.

Like, and, you know, from your, your course I had, I had made up a birth plan and really not a, this is what I want to happen.

I. Along the way, more of a, these are my priorities, this is what I would prefer.

If there are no medical indications, otherwise this is what I want.

Because at the end of the day, your goal is a healthy mom and a healthy baby.

But I did have some things that I really wanted and I had a couple of kind of big fears and so,

I really did not want to tear.

That was my really big fear is having not alone in that one major, major third and fourth degree tears.

Yeah.

And so I was like, I want to do anything I can to minimize that possibility.

I really wanted to be able to breastfeed.

And so I wanted to do whatever I could during labor and delivery to kind of start that off, from a good place.

And so I took, you know, through.

My breast pump company, I also took classes on that.

And you know, they talked about, you know, if you have a c-section, these are some kind of the things you have to watch out for when you breastfeed.

And so I really wanted to prioritize those things.

I don't wanna have a big tear.

I do want to breastfeed and I just really didn't want a C-section.

I wanted to do whatever I had to do to avoid that.

And a big induction.

So, I, I told her that, I said, these are really my priorities.

This is what I really want.

And she said, those, you know, those are reasonable.

Here's what we can do to kind of avoid that.

And I also had my kind of my list, like, I want my skin to skin for this long.

I want to delay cord clamping.

And I said, I don't wanna be that patient.

That was my big fear is, yeah, I'm gonna be that.

That patient that's so demanding.

I said, you know, you're still the doctor.

You still are in charge.

And I trust you.

I had a really great relationship with my ob, so I really trust you to make decisions that's best for me and our baby, but this is what I want if I can have it.

Yeah.

And so that was, that was a really positive conversation and she was very receptive to all of that.

So at 39 weeks she said, or I said.

I'm thinking about a membrane sweep.

What are your thoughts?

And she said, I think it's a good idea.

She said, for me, I had my first sweep 'cause she had had a baby about six months prior.

Mm-hmm.

I had my first sweep at 39.

I had to have a second at 40.

She said at 41 weeks.

I really don't like to let babies stay any longer.

That's a personal preference of mine.

I don't think it's safe.

So if you want to avoid an induction, starting with a membrane sweep is a nice, kind of.

Less invasive way to jumpstart that process.

So I had a membrane sweep at 39 week appointment.

It hurt way less than I thought it would.

It was not, it wasn't bad.

I left, I went to Chick-fil-A, I got a spicy chicken sandwich.

I was like, I'm gonna do all the things that's right.

I can to try to get this thing going.

We're gonna do the spicy food.

My husband and I went on a walk.

We did a lot of curb walking.

We did husband and wife activities that night to try to kind of get things going.

And then, you know, I went to bed and at 3:00 AM I woke up and I was like, I think that was a contraction.

Mm-hmm.

And so kind of laid there for a while and they were coming and going and I started timing them and they were very irregular.

And so I thought, well, I know from my class that sometimes a, membrane sweep can kind of trigger contractions that are not necessarily true labor.

And so I'm not gonna get excited about this.

You know?

It can resolve itself in a few hours and then nothing's gonna happen for a week.

Right?

But it did get to the point where I was like, I can't sleep through these.

I'm uncomfortable.

So.

Got up and just started doing everything I could to say if it is true labor, I wanna stay on my feet as long as possible.

And so I got up and started cleaning my house.

I made cookie dough and roset.

I

did lots of

laundry

like Can I ask, was it morning by now or what's the timing here when you got up?

It's about five.

Probably it's been a couple hours.

Yeah.

After about two hours of just laying there and I would kind of doze off and on.

Mm-hmm.

In between, but it just got uncomfortable just laying there.

Yeah.

And so about 5:00 AM I get up and I'm just doing everything I can around the house to stay busy.

And so my husband got up about six and at that point some of them had gotten.

Strong enough that I had a big, exercise ball that I pulled out and I was kind of sitting on it and trying to shift around because I was having a lot of back labor.

Like honestly, it hurt to sit on my bottom.

'Cause I felt a lot of just, I wouldn't say pressure, but it's like.

Towards my tailbone.

It kind of hurt back there.

Right?

And so I was pulling that exercise ball out in between, going around the house and doing things, trying to just relax that a little bit.

And so he got up and I said, okay, this is what's going on.

And he works from home, but he also kind of travels around and visits different people.

And he was like, okay.

I am gonna go get some stuff done this morning, but I'm gonna stay close in case you know, anything really starts happening.

And I said, I don't really think this is a true labor because.

I could never get a firm like, okay, they're seven minutes apart.

Mm-hmm.

They're six minutes apart.

I'd have one four minutes apart and then I'd have another one 12 minutes apart.

Yeah.

They were all over the place.

And so I just kind of kept doing that.

The rest of the day.

I had breakfast, and got a pedicure because that was very important that I had nice toes.

That's right.

And yeah.

And so while I was.

You know, getting a pedicure, of course you're just sitting there in one spot and they stopped and I was like, well, you know, this is, that's kind of what I was expecting, like mm-hmm.

This was not a true labor.

And so got my pedicure, came home and then I'd have one 30 minutes and then I'd have another one in 20 minutes.

And so they were so sporadic and I was so tired.

'cause again.

Been up since 3:00 AM and I laid down to take a nap and it's so funny 'cause one of our really close friends whose birthday was that day, called me and said, are you gonna have the baby today?

I said, I really don't think it's gonna happen.

Yeah, like, don't get your hopes up because at this point it's one o'clock in the afternoon and my last contraction was 30 minutes ago.

So I laid down, I took a two hour nap.

I got up.

As soon as I got up out of bed, they started up again.

But again, they were just all over the place and I just, I, I couldn't ever really get a read and my little phone app would tell you, your last contraction was four minutes apart.

Right?

You should go to the hospital, you should go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then 12 minutes, it looks like you're not in real labor.

Yeah.

You should call your doctor or something like that.

So, yeah, so it just kind of stayed like that.

My husband brought me dinner home by this time it's about six o'clock, and he said, well, my friend wants to come over and he's a big cigar guy.

And he said, we're gonna go smoke a cigar on the back patio 'cause it looks like you're probably not in real labor.

And I was like, okay.

I guess I don't, I don't know what to tell you 'cause I don't really know what's going on right now.

But, so I just kept.

We had gone for a walk.

We had done more curb walking, and I just, I was so exhausted, but I was still just doing everything I could just to stay on my feet.

So he went out, they smoked.

It's about 8, 8 30.

He leaves and.

I finally was just like, I can't stay on my feet any longer.

I'm so tired.

And so I got on lay down on the couch and I'm watching a movie and he comes in and he, sits down on the couch with me and, you know, we're just kind of relaxing and about ready to go to bed and.

It's nine 30 and I said, this baby is not coming today.

My last contraction was 15 minutes ago.

I'm tired, I wanna go to bed.

And he gets up and walks across the room and I felt a pop.

And my water gushed everywhere.

All over the couch.

Yeah.

The couch.

All over the couch.

Which is.

It actually worked out great because it was a very old brown couch Perfect.

That I hated.

Perfect.

And so that was the perfect excuse for us to buy a new couch.

That's right.

But it just, it went everywhere.

And I, I was so shocked.

I was like, oh my God, my water just broke.

And it didn't hurt.

It just felt like a balloon popped inside of me.

Mm-hmm.

But as soon as it did, the contraction started rolling in one right on top of the other, and they were maybe three minutes apart.

And I. Started to cry because I said I wanted to fix my hair and do my makeup, and now you're ready for bed.

Yeah.

And, and that was the point in which I started to get upset.

I was like, I really wanted to look good for pictures and my hair doesn't look good.

You're not alone in that.

It's so cute.

I feel the same way.

I get it.

I totally get it.

So,

and he laughed at me.

He was like, it's okay.

And so, yeah.

I, I got up and I took a shower and I got dressed.

And at this point, like just in that 30 minutes, like they were, they had decreased to like two minutes apart and they were rocking me.

I was like, okay, I'm feeling these, and to the point where at one point I had to drop down to my hands and knees to get through one.

And so, he has loaded up the car.

I'm a very type A person, so everything was ready to go and all he had to do was put it in the car.

Mm-hmm.

And so I get in the car and, what kind of threw me that I didn't really realize what happened is I'm just constantly leaking fluid, like.

I really thought with a big gush like that, that would be it.

But it was just a constant.

Fortunately the hospital is 10 minutes away from our house.

We get to the hospital and he's like, okay, I'm gonna drop you off at the ER and they'll come get you at the wheelchair.

I said, no, I'm gonna walk in.

We're not doing this.

Don't, we're not doing this dramatic thing.

Mm-hmm.

Like I'm walking in, so park in the back parking lot, we're just gonna walk.

And then I'd have to stop in the middle of the parking lot to have a contraction.

Yeah, definitely.

And every time I had a contraction, there's more water leaking out.

Fortunately we had done a hospital tour, which I think was really a great idea on our part 'cause we knew exactly where to go.

We knew what was going to happen.

They had kind of.

Walked us through.

Like if you come in in labor, no matter what, you're gonna go to triage and we're gonna kind of look you over and make sure you're actually in labor.

So this is where it kind of gets funny and I'm kind of losing my cool a little bit because I'm having contractions that are about two to one minute apart and we walk in and I'm just leaving a trail of fluid behind me.

And we tell them, you know, I'm in labor and so they bring me into triage, which I was cool with, I knew was gonna happen.

And the little nurse, God lover, I don't know if she was new or what, but she said, first I said, I really need to pee.

I said, I've got all this pressure on my.

Pressure on my bladder.

I said, I need to pee.

And so I went to the bathroom and I peed.

And then she's like, okay, now we're gonna swab you to make sure that your water has broken.

Yeah.

And I said, ma'am, what do you think that on?

I am surprised they even triaged you.

Like if you're leaking fluid on the floor, you're obviously ruptured.

Like that's pretty clear.

They, they did.

That's, they absolutely

triaged me.

Mm-hmm.

And, and then she holds the swab up and the charge nurse comes in and she had introduced herself, I'm the charge nurse, you know, this is what we're gonna do.

She holds the swab up to the charge nurse and she's, and it's like turned in electric, blue color blue.

Yeah.

And she said, do we need to send this off to the lab?

And the charge just like.

I don't think so.

We're good.

I think we, we've verified that her water has broken.

Cute.

So, I, I'm soaked and I'm, I guess I'm just so stubborn that they're like, okay, let's get you in a wheelchair.

I'm like, no, I can walk.

I can walk.

Don't put me in a wheelchair.

That's for sick people.

I can walk.

And so they're like, we really want to put you in the chair because.

You're leaking fluid, we really don't want you to slip and fall.

So they get me to a room and they're, you know, doing, there's like five people in the room and there's so much going on and I was just so like.

With the pain, I could not focus on anything that had happened.

And I actually skipped something.

I'll go back to triage.

While I was in there, she said, we need to check your cervix and say, we need you to lie down.

And my back labor was so bad I could not lay down.

And I said, okay, but can you do it in between contractions and do it quick because it's hurting so bad to lay down on my back.

And she said, yeah.

So in between contractions she gets in there and she la she spend so long checking my cervix that another contraction is coming and I like, you gotta get out.

Gotta stop.

Mm-hmm.

The charge nurse says, where is she?

And she says, I think she's at an eight, but I really can't tell.

So can you check it for me?

Really?

And I'm like, oh my God.

Yeah.

And so they said, just so you know, your window for an epidural is closing really fast.

Mm-hmm.

So if you want one, you need to tell us now.

And fortunately I really wanted to go natural and I did not want an epidural.

And so I said, no, I don't want an epidural.

Which, you know, helped because at that point I really had no choice.

Like, you don't have a lot of time to dither about this decision.

So back in the, the room, there's so many nurses around and they're doing all the things and hooking me up to monitors and I'm just kneeling on the side of the bed just like, you know, my rear end hanging out for the whole world to see because at this point I'm in a gown and I have no cares because Nope, you don't.

I, I am just like.

These contractions were coming so fast and so strong that I'm just rocked by them.

But I did have enough wherewithal.

They start trying to put an IV in, like in this part of my hand or on my right hand.

And I was like, no, no, no, don't do that.

Like put it somewhere else on my arm that it's not gonna be in the way and it's not gonna be painful.

Because I knew from experience that those hand IVs do not feel good.

And.

You know, they're hooking me up.

And so, then I get into bed and I'm just on all fours in bed.

And my husband, who was really great, like, he's very calm, never I never kind of panicked, always just very calm and very soothing.

He starts massaging my back 'cause I'm like, my back is hurting so bad and he's getting in there with his thumbs and just as much pressure as he could.

And he's a big guy, onto my, my back, just right above my pelvis.

And at this point it is.

My water breaks at nine 30.

We are at the hospital by 10 15, so it's probably 11 o'clock at night.

And I look at him and like.

I said, I think I have effed up because I have declined this epidural.

Yeah.

Because I am in so much pain and like I'm just, I'm in between contractions.

I'm trying to say all the things like, I'm like, it's pressure not pain.

It's pressure not pain.

Right.

And I'm just like repeating any kind of mantras that I can to get me through this.

And, the little nurse just kept wanting to check my cervix, like, it's like every 10 minutes she wanted to check me again, and I just was like, no, I don't wanna be checked right now, because that meant I had to get on my back and I can't handle being on my back.

And, finally like, I'm starting to feel some pressure and she's like, we really need to check you.

And I've, I do feel bad about this, but I said.

You can check me, but find someone who knows what they're doing.

Not you.

It's okay

because

I think that's fine.

I'm like

the first time you took forever and then you didn't even know whether I was at an eight or not.

Like I need somebody that's really knows how to get in there quick.

Yeah.

And get out.

So the charge nurse comes in and checks and I don't even remember what she said other than you're just really close.

Mm-hmm.

And my problem was, is in my head, and I'd done all the, I'd done your class, I'd done all the education.

But when I got in that moment, I was in so much pain.

I thought I had like 12 hours of this left.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I really had no idea that like, you're about to have a baby imminently.

And now I realize like I was just in transition, but I, I thought this pain is gonna kill me.

I'm gonna die.

Mm-hmm.

I can't do this at all.

And I would say those things to my husband, and that's the point where he kind of started panicking, like, yeah, oh my God, what's happening?

But no one said to me up until that point, you're in transition.

You're about to have this baby within the next hour, and I thought your water breaks and 12 hours later you have a baby.

So I really mentally was not in a good place because I thought I just can't handle this level of pain for several more hours.

Mm-hmm.

So, but when the charge nurse was like, you're really close, that helped me so much to know like, it's not gonna be a long time.

Right.

I got on my side, they brought the peanut ball out, which really helped me kind of, it just.

I was able to rest my leg on something.

And I felt like after that, when I got on that peanut on my side with that peanut ball, it, it, she like almost came shooting out.

Like it was so fast.

Mm-hmm.

I started, I told them, I said, I need to start pushing.

And they had called the doctor.

Unfortunately my doctor that I had seen was not on call and so it was one of her partners who I had never met.

And I start pushing and he gets in the room and he was like, okay, I saw some hair on that last push.

I almost didn't have time to get my gloves on and five minutes and three pushes and she was out.

Amazing.

It was, it was so fast and I was kind of in shock.

I, I just was like, what just happened?

There did come a point, on that last push that, the doctor told me her heart rate is starting to drop, so you really need to get her out.

And I was kind of waiting on a contraction because it was easier to push with the contraction.

And I said, can I wait for the next contraction?

And the doctor said, well, I wouldn't if it were me.

And I looked at my husband like, well, who should I ask?

Yeah.

Like, does that mean Yeah.

Like, just tell me what to do.

I, yeah.

I'm not at a point where I can make decisions.

Right.

So I, I did like a, just a big push as hard as I can, and she came out, was perfect.

So it was, it was a really good experience, but it was wild because.

All day long.

I had just been telling myself, you're not in real labor.

'cause I didn't wanna psych myself up and then get my hopes down.

Right.

Yeah.

We talk about this a lot on Instagram stuff too fast.

Labors can be a blessing, right, in that.

Mm-hmm.

You think, oh, I didn't have to do this for 12 hours like you were worried about, or 14.

Mm-hmm.

But there is also.

That your brain needs time to catch up to physically what just happened.

And there can be this space in between or as you're processing later on where it's, it's just like, I just need a minute.

Yes, I'm glad.

And yes, I didn't wanna do that 12 more hours, but also what just happened, like you can, I think it, there's this catch up, this lag between body and mind sometimes, and you just need a little bit of time.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was just all the feelings because mm-hmm.

I just was like, I, I didn't even expect to have a baby today and all of a sudden I've got a baby.

And, I can't believe that I just did that, and that just happened.

And then I felt really bad because I had said so many mean things to the nurse, and so I'm like apologizing to her, because I, and I do understand this on their part.

They're trying to ask all of the questions because they've got a patient that they're trying to assess that just came in and is immediately in hard labor.

Mm-hmm.

And so they're asking me all the things like, you know, are you group B positive?

Are you, do you have diabetes?

Do you have hypertension?

Just all the things.

And I had to answered these questions over and over and over and over again.

Mm-hmm.

In the middle of.

Very hard labor and I just lost my cool with them and is like, don't ask me any more questions right now.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So I think that's okay.

I really do.

I mean, I can tell you being the nurse and receiving that from patients too, like.

You don't have to worry about it.

One more second.

Hopefully you're not anymore now that you're a few months postpartum, but Yeah.

Yeah.

Like they're so used to it, and not that that is like granting access for everyone to be unkind or rude, but like I think they get it and I think, yeah.

We get it and we know, and then probably if a nurse has had a baby too, they even get it more intimately.

Like they know Yeah.

They know what you're going through while you're also being asked what you weigh, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think it, I think you're good.

Yeah.

So my husband was, it was so funny 'cause he was kind of like, you screamed a lot.

Like I think they might have heard you in the parking lot.

Okay.

And I,

and I, I was apologizing for that too.

I was like, I'm sorry I was so loud because, you know, it's the middle of the night and I'm screaming.

Yeah.

And, my OB that I saw postpartum later was like, everybody does.

Yeah.

Like if you give birth naturally, I've never had a patient that was a silent, natural birther.

Mm-hmm.

They all do it, so it's normal.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, she was really small.

She was five 13.

Mm-hmm.

And 19 inches.

So she was in that sixth percentile.

They had to do all the blood sugar monitors and checks, but, yeah, a as far as labor and birth and all of that, if, if I could have that experience every time, I'll be okay with it.

Postpartum was a different story, but mm-hmm.

I'd love to hear about it if you wanna get into it, especially breastfeeding being a goal.

Sure.

How did that go and yeah,

so that was, that was really hard.

You know, we started off, in the hospital doing all the things of, you know, we did the skin to skin and trying to get her to latch immediately.

And the nurse that I had kind try kept trying to put a she nipple shield on me.

'cause she was like, I think you need a nipple shield.

And I. And that was really uncomfortable.

And then the lactation consultant of course, comes in the next morning 'cause it's the middle of the night and is like, you don't need a nipple shield, you're fine.

And so we were doing a lot of just round the clock nursing because she was so small and they were concerned about her blood sugar and getting enough of that colostrum into her.

Mm-hmm.

You know, pretty much every second that she was awake, I had her on my breast.

And, you know, the hospital experience, it was really great.

I wasn't in a lot of pain.

By the end of the first day, my husband and I were both like, can we go home?

But unfortunately they had to do that 24 hour.

You know, all the checks they do mm-hmm.

On newborns.

And since I had given birth at 11 o'clock at night, almost midnight, you know, we had to just stay that second night.

Right.

But we got home and, gave birth on a Tuesday, got home on a Thursday.

They had already set me up for a pediatrician appointment on that Friday because, you know, they're like, she's really small, for gestational age and so we wanna make sure that we're staying on top of her weight and her gaining and everything.

So.

I go to the pediatrician on Friday and she had lost, she had got down to five four.

Mm-hmm.

So she was at a 9% body weight.

And that's the point where they're like, we really need to start supplementing with formula because she's just lost too much and she's a small baby to begin with.

And they set me up with a lactation consultant home visit.

So we're supplementing with formula.

The lactation consultant comes in, we're doing weighted feeds, which is where they, which I had no idea what this was.

They weighed her, I fed her, and they weighed her again.

And they could tell from the weighted feeds that she was just not getting anything from me.

So the lactation consultant said, we're gonna start doing this triple feeding thing where I would nurse her 'cause we're trying to establish that latch.

And we did have a really hard time latching because she was very small.

And there is still some kind of.

Debate about whether she has a tongue and lip tie or not, and if that was preventing her from getting a really deep latch.

The lactation consultants were very much like, she has a tie, you need to get it corrected.

The pediatrician was like, she's fine.

I think we're overcorrecting some of these things and we don't necessarily need to start jumping into messing with their anatomy.

So we kind of were hearing.

Two different things from both professionals.

But I wouldn't, I would put her on the breast and then we would give her a bottle of formula and I would pump and I was pumping 30 minutes every two hours, which was a lot.

So much work.

Triple feeding is so hard.

It was so hard.

After 10 days, I had nothing.

I had not pumped so much as an ounce after all of that.

So we did a concierge lactation doctor who, you know, was like, let's try, let's try goat through.

Let's try this.

Supplement, this herb.

We're gonna put you on Reglan.

You know, we're gonna do blood work, we're gonna do an ultrasound to make sure you haven't retained the placenta.

Just all the things, because I really was desperate and that was the hard thing.

Like you have all these hormones and all these emotions.

And I just remember sobbing with my husband, like, I can't do this.

I can't do this.

And you, I did very much feel like I had just completely failed.

As a mother, because I, my body just was not working the way that everyone said it should.

And so, and I already felt really bad because I kept hearing all these things, like, you have a really small baby.

Like, she didn't, she was small for gestational age.

And so I'm thinking like, did I not eat enough while I was pregnant?

Did I not gain enough?

Was I not eating enough protein?

Like I'm feeling like I've done all the things wrong.

Because I have this baby that's very small, not gaining the way that she should, and I'm also not producing anything to feed her, so it was so hard.

On top of that, I got an infection postpartum, that, had to be treated after the infection, I got a secondary infection Oh goodness.

From, from the medication to treat the first infection.

And so I was at my obs office every one to two weeks.

Just trying to treat all of that and, my, that area was just.

It was bad.

It was really, really, I developed a rash, like almost a hive like rash, around that, that area, that my OB was like, kind of at a loss about.

She said, you know, I think that your, your skin, the hormones are going wild.

You've had these infections.

Your skin is just hyper to everything that's happening down there.

So it was a really hard six weeks, really more like eight weeks of postpartum.

And at the end of it, even with all of the, the, the blood work, the doctors, the supplements, the prescriptions, they could never give me a definitive answer of this is why you're not lactating.

And it, it just never worked.

And I did pump to the point where I gave myself mastitis.

I even developed a lump in my breast that would not go away even three months later.

So had to go have a mammogram for that.

It was just really hard.

So it's like I kind of paid for a really easy pregnancy and labor with a postpartum that was really, really tough.

And.

Medically, they can never give me an answer.

But then later, you know, you, you're talking to all these moms and these seasoned moms and grandmas, and they all told me kind of the same thing.

They said, you know, with my first baby, I could never breastfeed either.

I don't know what it was.

I just never produced any milk.

And with my second baby, I was producing like gangbusters.

It was mm-hmm.

Just, I could have fed three babies with the amount of milk I produced and.

Anecdotally, that's kind of what some people said, like your body doesn't just get the message the first time around.

So maybe with the second time around, it's like they need, they need a replay to figure out.

Mm-hmm.

Like, oh, we've had a baby.

We're supposed to do this, I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say, does that make you feel open to if you were to have another baby trying again?

Or do you feel like that'd be too hard if, if you were let down again?

Like how do you feel about that right now?

I would try.

Yeah.

I definitely would try again, I will say that with the perspective of time.

Yeah.

You know, three months after she was born, was the heartache there of not being able to have that bond?

And to do that, yes, but time really does take this thing away.

And the fact that, you know, your hormones have regulated more and you're not just, your body is not quite as much of a wreck as it was for that first six to eight weeks.

And at this point now.

She's perfect.

We have, you know, the formula thing down.

My husband gets to feed her, which he kind of secretly, I think enjoyed.

Yeah.

Like he's like, I get to feed her too now.

Yeah.

Because my mother, my, my husband is, he actually has his PhD in animal nutrition.

So he also knew all of the things about like, you know, colostrum and lactation.

Yeah.

And he was a big supporter of, you know, whatever we need to do to get you.

Where you want to be to lactating and able to feed her.

Mm-hmm.

You

know, when we're spending $500 on a concierge lactation doctor, he never told me no.

He was always very supportive of whatever it took to do that because he knew what it meant to me mentally and emotionally to be able to do that.

But he also knew from a, a medical and scientific perspective the benefits.

But there did come a time where he was like, I think.

It's time to just say it's, we're done.

It's, it's not gonna work.

And I had kind of reached that point too.

I had also kind of said like, I just can't keep pumping like this.

And it's, it's so tough mentally when you are pumping every two to three hours and you just have empty canisters, like there's nothing there.

So, you're, I reached a point where I'm like, I'm okay with it.

I have a healthy baby.

And I have, you know, friends that are still pumping or breastfeeding their nine month old and they have a level of kind of hassle that I don't have to have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's practical

truths of that.

Definitely.

With a formula

fed, you know, she's.

At the point where I hand her a bottle and she just goes to town, she wants to do it herself.

Yeah.

And I don't have the trying to nurse in public with a squirmy baby looking around everywhere.

And, it does make it a lot easier as you know, they get older to just be able to hand them the bottle.

And I'm not attached to a pump, so it was hard, but it's, it is what it is.

And, and we got through it.

And now mentally I'm like, I'm okay.

For the second baby, I'll probably still try.

But hopefully I'll have the, the perspective and the wisdom to say if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite things about having another baby.

If you go past one, it's just no matter how the first experience goes, whether we're talking about birth or postpartum or breastfeeding, like you bring wisdom into it.

So maybe, yes, every baby is different, every experience is different, but your wisdom that you carry, and I just think that no matter how first versus second compares or goes, that wisdom is just such a gift.

The second time or the third time, like no one can take that from you.

No one can teach you that wisdom.

You.

It's hard fought for.

Right?

Yeah.

And then you get to carry that forward.

And I do think it's just such a game changer when you move to the next time or the next experience.

Yeah.

It's because even now, I think like there are certain things that I would do very differently that people had told me, when you have a baby, do this, this, and this.

Yeah.

And.

I didn't do them.

Like people would say, take it easy.

Don't, don't have people come over and see the babies.

Stay in bed, rest, let your body heal.

And you know, you're kind of in that glow of you just had a baby and you want everyone to come see her and she's so perfect.

Mm-hmm.

And

so we did.

I, you know, I did allow more people and more family to come visit and stay and, than I would if I were doing it the second time around, and I would take it a lot easier on my body and spend as much time in bed as possible.

I tried to just.

Get right back up and jump right back into things and it almost felt like a failure.

If I say like, oh, I need to stay in bed for two weeks.

I just had a baby.

It's like, no, you're fine.

Get up and go do the dishes and go do laundry.

So, yeah.

Well, Lord willing, you can do it differently.

And again, that's that wisdom, right, of like, Hey, I can craft this the way that I want to.

You know?

And I think that's why, going back to when you started, you were saying just getting the kind of full spectrum education opinion, not just like a class, but just opinions from the people around you or the people you choose to listen to.

Just recognizing there's a lot of places you can land and if you do it one way the first time and you didn't love it, like, okay, I'm gonna land over here this time that's allowed.

Like, I'm allowed to change my mind.

I'm allowed to do it differently.

I'm allowed to want something different.

That's, mm-hmm.

Like we're all supposed to get to have that freedom.

So yeah.

I hope that, yeah, winner, if you have number two, that you can, you can do the things differently, you know, that you want to or that feel right for you that time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I know you mentioned.

Your body of birth, which I love.

Mm-hmm.

Of course.

Any other like, resources you love, podcasts, educators, anything else that you can think of?

Books,

You know, I would, I, I did read, the Emily Oster book, expecting Better, bettering Better.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

I did really enjoy that book.

I will say that I also read her second book crib sheet.

Being totally honest did not find that as helpful as expecting better, but, I, like, I thought it was a great book.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought she really broke down, you know, what, what you really in reality can't do and don't have to be afraid of.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So for instance.

I was not afraid to eat, deli meat from, you know, certain places.

Like I loved me and my Jersey Mike's sandwiches.

Yeah.

And so knowing that they had fresh deli meat every day, I was like, I think that the risks here are really.

So minimal that we don't have to worry about it.

So I did expecting better, which I found really helpful.

It, it's so funny that it's like the algorithm on social media knows you're pregnant almost immediately.

It so fast.

It just, it starts feeding you all of this information of like, you're.

You know, you're, when you're doom scrolling, it's like everything is just about pregnancy and labor and birth.

But I, I did read that.

I did also, listen to several, podcasts and read several articles from the evidence-based birth group.

On certain things because I am a big, I want, I want the evidence, I want the hard data.

Mm-hmm.

Which is probably why I liked the Emily Oster book so much.

Yeah, definitely.

I, I don't, I don't just want to hear your story.

I want to hear what the metadata says, what, you know, the studies say, what is actually necessary and what is something that we've just been doing for 50 years, because that's just what we do.

But in reality, it's just really not necessary.

Right.

And even in my, you know, kind of pain induced birth ha.

Was having a hard time even recognizing the fact that I was in transition.

Even though I knew what transition was.

I'd read about it, heard about it, you know, when they said, okay, we we're ready for you to move to your back.

Because I had the level of education that I did, I was able to say, no, I don't wanna birth on my back.

I wanna birth on my side.

I'm more comfortable here.

And so I stayed on my side and I was able to deliver on my side.

So I'm a big fan of education, and when I say education, I, I mean evidence-based education.

So that's perfect.

We can drop those links.

I mean, I have read the book as well, and then I definitely, I love evidence-based birth too, I think.

Mm-hmm.

When you want those numbers and just to say, here you go, this is what's out there.

Yep.

And you still get to choose with.

Like what to do with it, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The resources blogs podcast, they're really great.

Yeah.

Okay.

Last thing one, if you're comfortable sharing it, is there's somewhere people could reach out to you if there's something about, you know, your story that they wanted to contact you or connect with you about.

Sure.

My, I, I have two Instagrams.

One is private, one is public.

Okay.

And so, you know, if, if people, want to reach out to me, they can on pretty much either of them.

Mm-hmm.

I think I left the link.

For the public one there, but you know, my private one.

Okay.

You just kind of gotta weed out the, okay.

The crazies all good.

I can put

both in, the show notes and then if they wanted to, they can definitely send you a DM I'm assuming.

Yeah, they can absolutely send me the a dm and then I'm in the, the, your body, your birth Facebook group,

Uhhuh,

Which I loved.

And in that postpartum haze, I think I dropped several different, like I remember you questions in there.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So yeah,

last question, just for fun that I've been asking anyone who comes on with me is just, what's something that's just bringing a ton of joy and life to you right now?

Anything.

such an easy question for me to answer right now.

My daughter has learned how to growl.

It's like, that's cute.

It's a new trick that she's learned and you growl at her and she's grow growls back at you.

And it's just like so perfect.

She's the cutest thing.

Ever.

My husband, I are both like, let's have 18 more of these.

Yeah.

Because she's so cute.

And so yeah, she is, she's growling at everyone and everything.

That's her new thing that she's I like it.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Go

ahead.

Go ahead.

Oh, I was gonna say it helps at 4:00 AM when you're getting up, you know, which is growling to put the pacifier back in.

You're like, I just want you to sleep.

Yeah.

I love when they learn those new things, the sounds you or they like, learn how to stick out their tongue.

And you're like, oh.

Now they just have their tongue sticking out all the time.

Yeah.

It's like these tiny things, but they have to learn them.

Yeah.

And you can watch it happen.

It is really cute.

Okay.

Anything else you wanna add?

No.

Are you good?

Okay.

No, I just wanna say thank you.

I, I love your class.

I love your page.

I love your resources.

I love, you know, when you share the personal, looks into your life and your heart, you know, through your writing.

I just, I think it's all very uplifting and informative at the same time, so I appreciate all of your honesty and your sharing your life and your knowledge with us.

Thanks, Caroline.

It's a privilege to do it.

It really, really is.

So thank you for sharing your story.

I know it takes some vulnerability too, so I appreciate our listeners.

I'm sure will appreciate it too.

Thank you so much for listening to the Lo and Behold podcast.

I hope there was something for you in today's episode that made you think, made you laugh or made you feel seen.

For show notes and links to the resources, freebies, or discount codes mentioned in this episode, please head over to lo and behold podcast.com.

If you aren't following along yet, make sure to tap, subscribe, or follow in your podcast app so we can keep hanging out together.

And if you haven't heard it yet today, you're doing a really good job.

A little reminder for you before you go, opinions shared by guests of this show are their own, and do not always reflect those of myself and the Labor Mama platform.

Additionally, the information you hear on this podcast or that you receive via any linked resources should not be considered medical advice.

Please see our full disclaimer at the link in your show notes.