Motherhood is all consuming.

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is.

I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this, and we're leaning into that truth here.

With the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert Insights and practical Applications.

Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

This is the Lo and Behold podcast.

I wanna tell you guys a little story, a personal, you know, relatively vulnerable or kind of humbling story as well.

But I think it's valuable to hear it from, you know, let me put my nurse hat on for a minute, but an OB nurse perspective, because what you're gonna hear is that.

This is part of the ob maternal, you know, fetal healthiness world, what I'm about to share.

And yet I had no idea, right?

This was a true, Hey, me too.

What is going on here?

Type moment where I was not full of all the knowledge, I was not able to advocate well, respond well or, you know, get, you know, kick myself into gear and fix.

What was going on here?

So the setup here is I was eight weeks postpartum with my second baby, and in theory, from the outside, everything was going great.

Okay.

She's growing, she's thriving.

Breastfeeding's going great.

I did have two under two.

So that had its whole own set of challenges, and we could talk about this on another podcast episode, but my one to two transition was my hardest.

It's very possible that what I'm talking about today was part of that.

But definitely having two under two kind of rocked my.

Type A. Can't you all just sleep when I want you to do what I want, when I want you to world.

But ultimately, I'm eight weeks postpartum.

Things look like they're going well from the outside, right?

And my husband looks at me one day and he says, what is wrong with you?

I still remember him saying, what is wrong with you?

Which, hello?

Tell me what postpartum mom, hackles don't go up when their husband looks at 'em and says, what is wrong with you?

But he said.

Feels like you hate breastfeeding.

You seem so pissed every time you have to feed her.

Like, I don't know what's wrong with you.

Why don't you get ahold of yourself essentially.

And you know, I don't really fault Kel.

I mean, he could have been more gracious than kind, but he wasn't wrong.

I had a horrific attitude about breastfeeding my girl.

And I had not been this way when I breastfed my first girl, right?

So to him.

In some, you know, indirect way.

This was his call out of, you don't seem okay, there's something going on, so can we figure this out Because this isn't normal.

And to be honest, I was angry.

I do remember thinking, okay, you're being a jerk.

You have no idea.

Hard it's to breastfeed baby.

I have two babies under two.

Like get off.

But also I felt a lot of shame because Cal called out something that was true and I could not figure out why.

I felt the way I felt.

All I knew was that he was a wrong, and I didn't know what that meant, because what was true in those weeks and it had started building and growing and growing.

As our girl was here and we were getting to know her and, you know, kind of welcome into our family and her home is, I didn't like breastfeeding her.

I did not look forward to it.

Every time I had to, it was this eye rolling, Ugh, I don't want to, I hate this.

I don't want to, when's she gonna be hungry again?

Like, it was a miserable experience.

And if you're like me, I mean, I've definitely bought into, and honestly, I believe in, as long as these narratives don't, you know, put chains around our necks, I believe in the narratives that.

Breastfeeding is a gift and it's a privilege, and if we can do it, we wanna do it.

We should be doing it right.

It's a. Great, beautiful thing for both our babies and ourselves and , if you can breastfeed, you should be breastfeeding and good mothers breastfeed.

Okay.

Again, there's some, you know, negative connotation and narratives in there that can lead to a lot of, burden.

But ultimately this was something I believe, right?

Like I wanted to be able to my kids, I knew it was a good thing, it was a valuable thing, and if I could do it, I wanted to do it.

So why then?

Did I hate doing it right?

And that's where the shame had stuck in.

And I think it's also why my initial response to Kel was anger.

Like, get off, don't talk to me about this.

But ultimately, the voice underneath right, is you're not wrong.

And I also don't know why I feel this way, so I'm scared and I'm freaked out because I shouldn't feel this way, right?

So long story short, let's not, you know, withhold what was going on here.

I had something called dysphoric milk ejection reflex.

I had not experienced it with my first baby, and it is something that had just shown up the second time and it kind of, I don't wanna use the word revolutionized 'cause that sounds positive, but it completely flipped my breastfeeding experience on its head.

So dysphoric milk ejection reflex is also referred to most commonly by the acronym D-MER.

So that's what I'm gonna use throughout the rest of this episode, but I want you to hear that one more time.

Dysphoric milk ejection reflex.

It is a physiological breastfeeding condition.

This chemical, hormonal response to the moments of milk.

Let down, right?

So when we breastfeed, we have let down.

And whether or not you feel let down, that's totally normal by the way to feel or not feel.

Your let down there is let down happening.

Okay?

So regardless of whether or not you feel it, it's happening.

And basically this letdown occurs and then your milk starts flowing and this happens.

Once every feed twice, three, four, sometimes there's some people up to like 8, 9, 10 times a feed.

So your body continually does this little system of letting down while you're feeding.

You could also have spontaneous letdowns, which just happen.

This is kind of, you know, those moms who say, oh my gosh, I start leaking every time I hear a baby.

Cryer hear my baby cry.

So let down is not always specific to actually having a baby on the breast or pumping, but it is typically most often occurring during breastfeeding, pumping, and of course it is.

Always occurring during those times, and then you can have those spontaneous ones as well.

Okay.

So that's big picture.

That's what was going on here.

However, I think that it is a conversation that's super necessary because I think it's pretty darn prevalent if not more prevalent than we even.

Want to believe, right?

Or have even discovered yet.

Right now, research is, eh, it's, I wouldn't say confusing, but it's a little bit ambiguous about how common D-MER is.

Estimates range between like three and 12%, six to nine, stuff like that.

When you look at individual papers, so I like to say it's up to or around like 10% of people have this breastfeeding condition.

Now this is pretty significant.

You guys like, think about it.

If one of every 10.

Of you like standing in a group of friends has something you would think that you would know about it, right?

Like that is pretty darn common when you think about the massive number of breastfeeding moms who are dealing with this.

But what I've found, and obviously what my story shows is, is that a lot of us maybe are dealing with it or had dealt with it, and we just had no idea what was going on.

And I think that that truth, right?

That, oh my gosh, this is just another crappy breastfeeding thing.

That we need to tell people, but I don't really wanna tell them because breastfeeding's already hard and it can be kind of overwhelming and we don't wanna make people think, what's the point?

Here's another thing to worry about.

I think that potentially that can slow this conversation down a little bit, right?

Or you kind of tiptoe into it 'cause you just don't wanna add to the burden kind of, of preparing to breastfeed.

But that's a disservice to you guys and honestly.

I think it was a disservice to me, right?

Like I wish this conversation were being had because I think it would have saved me so much shame, so much guilt, so much I. Sadness, honestly not because knowing about it can prevent D-MER, but because knowing about it can actually make it better, like to some degree treatment for D-MER, especially when you have it mildly.

And yes, we'll get into this is simply awareness and that can just change everything.

So as with all things breastfeeding, D-MER needs to be a part of the conversation because the hard stuff and the good stuff are all.

Part of the breastfeeding story and we have the right to know what may or may not be coming for us, and then we can choose to what to do with it.

Right?

That's what I'm always saying here.

You get the information, you decide what you wanna do with it, that's on you.

But I wanna be someone who can help throw things in front of you and say, now go do what you want with that.

Okay.

All right, so let's get more specific about what is D-MER.

Let's define this a little bit better.

So it was discovered in oh seven, like I said, by a lactation consultant.

Her name is Alina Akre heis.

She discovered it with her third baby, which I think is really interesting because D-MER doesn't necessarily happen with your first baby, and that's just your story for however many babies you have.

Obviously, you can tell from my story as well that that wasn't true for me, right?

I didn't have it with my first at all.

I'm certain of it because once I did.

It was different.

And then I did have it with my second, and then I had it with my third, my fourth.

And research kind of shows that once you've had it, that's kind of a risk factor, which typically then means once you have it, you will likely have it with most of your subsequent children.

That's been true for me.

I've heard people say differently, so I don't, that's not fact.

Okay.

I am not putting that out there as fact.

But just to give you a little idea of kind of how this shows up.

Randomly.

But then what happens once it does show up is that that then kind of puts you in a risk category for having it again.

I do wanna mention, Alina has a book about this 'cause she really was this front runner about D-MER and I'll link it in the show notes, but if you think this is you or you're curious about it, it's a quick, easy read.

Her book's called Before the Let Down Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex and the Breastfeeding Mother.

And it's one of the great, it's a great resource right now.

'cause again, there's not prolific information about all of this.

So it's a great resource to kind of get you grounded in what this is, what it means, what do I can do, et cetera.

In terms of what D-MER actually is.

I know I've given you the vocabulary.

I've given you the definition, but I want you to hear that it is a physiological response.

Physiological response.

So this is not a mental disorder.

This is not something else going on.

This is physiological within your body.

It's a physiological response that causes negative emotions just before your milk let down.

Which I know I already told you guys all of that, but I want you to hear that physiological part.

This is chemical, this is hormonal, this is reflexive, but it is not a mental health disorder, and that is important to understand.

It is not something that you can just treat the way that we treat A-P-M-A-D, right?

Those perinatal mental health, disorders.

This is different.

This is a bodily response that to some degree we can't do a ton with, but we're gonna get into that.

The big thing I think that's really different about, D-MER as well, is that it's a, it's a very hormonal response.

So I said, yeah, physiological, obviously hormonal fits within that umbrella, right?

So the hormonal part too, I think is important because what you are feeling when you are experiencing D-MER.

Is not a reflection of how you actually feel about breastfeeding.

And again, you guys know, I just mentioned I had all this shame, right?

I thought this is a reflection of me as a mother.

I hate breastfeeding.

I'm a bad mother, right?

Maybe you think that's dumb.

Don't make that leap.

But that's the leap I made.

And I know that other moms have made that leap too.

But this is a hormonal response, right?

So we can't control what's going on and our feelings are caused by something else and not.

Because of what we think or feel about breastfeeding or a baby, our bond with them, et cetera.

So I really want you to hear that.

It was so helpful for me to hear that.

Okay, so when it comes to the actual D-MER experience, what, what does this mean?

I told you guys, I was angry, right?

I was annoyed to have to breastfeed.

I felt this anxiousness.

I felt this feeling of, ugh, I hate this.

I mean, I don't know how else to, I keep using the word hate.

We don't use the word hate in our home, but that's essentially, it was this really powerful, negative emotion to having to breastfeed.

And then when I was actually breastfeeding, when I was actually experiencing.

That D-MER experience, which again, is right around let down.

I felt this knot in my stomach, this like deep sense of homesickness.

And I had just lost my mom.

She had died just a few months before I had had this second baby.

And so for me, I was all, it was this tangle of like grief, and we're gonna get into this, you guys, because I wasn't.

Actually grieving, but there is this weird connection between what I was feeling and I just felt sick, like nauseous pit in my stomach, hollow.

People can be anxious, irritable.

There's a lot of ways that people describe this.

I've heard people say, oh, it made me really introspective, which typically that introspection leads to some sort of negative interpretation of some situation in your life, but ultimately this is this overall.

General negative experience, right?

That's where the dysphoric and DM OR comes from.

You are feeling this intense dysphoria.

This can happen when you have baby at the breast or when you are pumping, and it can actually happen with those spontaneous letdowns that I mentioned as well.

It's kind of interesting.

I don't really remember feeling it as much pumping with my second baby, but because I had also with my third and my fourth, I do remember having it pumping with them.

I also felt like mine was the most severe with my second baby, but I also don't remember experiencing it at night as much, which we mostly fed at the breast with all of my kids.

I would pump, you know, in between or when I was away or stuff like that.

I. I didn't experience it as deeply at night usually, and I used to tell Kel, maybe it's because I'm just so tired, like the overwhelming theme is I'm exhausted, I'm breastfeeding, and my body can't process anything else except exhaustion.

I have no idea if that's true, but it was really interesting.

That there was such a spectrum to this condition.

But what I found to be true as I was, , reading into this more, is that, that's actually the whole point is D-MER is a spectrum condition.

So you can have it mild, moderate, or severe.

Okay.

So there's a severity spectrum associated with it.

And then you can also have, there's this emotional spectrum.

So you can have despondency, deemer, anxiety related deemer, or agitation related deemer.

So.

Clinically, let's say someone were gonna, you know, in theory diagnose you, they might say she has like mild despondency, deemer or severe agitation, deemer, and you can kind of put those.

Together.

Alina has a website about D-MER.

I'll share that one in the show notes too, 'cause it's a great quick read if you just wanna go jump onto that as well.

But she, she kind of talks about how these spectrums are like colors and red and blue are both colors, but they're obviously very different colors.

So you fit on this D-MER spectrum.

You can say.

I have D-MER if you're experiencing this, but your experience of D-MER is probably gonna look and feel very different than mine.

And we both have it.

It's just wildly different in how it shows up in our body.

I was reading some research on this topic, the, you know, kind of how does it actually feel once, and I'm gonna read you this quote.

I will link the resource that it came from down below, but I thought it was so.

Good for what it feels like when you're experiencing these like dysphoric moments during lockdown.

Okay.

The quote says, if you have read Harry Potter, shout out to my Harry Potter fans.

They talk about the creatures that suck the soul out of you, and when they are around, it makes you feel cold and you start to focus on negative things and fall into this abyss of negative thoughts.

That is how D-MER was for me at times.

End quote.

So what she's referencing is these things called Dementors and Harry Potter books, and essentially they like latch onto you and suck your soul out of you.

It's like this very dark, gross characters in the books.

But when I read that, I remember thinking, this is it.

She nailed it.

That is exactly what it feels like.

It feels like this overwhelming hollowness that I cannot get past.

I cannot get through.

And then just like that gone.

And that's the wild thing about D-MER.

But it's also, the thing I want you to understand as you kind of consider is this going on in my own body, is that D-MER is brief, okay?

It only lasts a couple of minutes.

You often start to feel these negative symptoms right before your letdown.

Right.

Kind of when you're going to latch baby or you know, maybe you're picking up and you're getting 'em ready and your body starts to do its chemical thing like, Hey, we're gonna feed your baby, and then here come these feelings.

They're latching, they're sucking let down happens.

Letdown usually lasts.

It's not over in 10 seconds, right at maybe 60 seconds or so.

And then the feelings dissipate and as quickly as they come on, they are gone.

It is the wildest, wildest thing, but that's such a tell for D-MER.

So I want you to hear that they come, they are intense.

They can like.

Knock your feet out from under you.

Honestly, you can.

I, I would be laughing at my 20 month old.

Ha ha.

You're adorable.

Latch baby on and boom.

Like that.

I am.

Lost in grief and homesickness, and I feel hollow.

I mean it.

I have never experienced anything like this, but it was so clear once I knew about this condition, that is it.

That is it.

Exactly.

And so I think it's really helpful to understand the brevity of this, so the intensity of it, the spectrum that we're talking about, but also the brevity of it so you can kind of figure out if this is something that is going on with you.

I have to get into the science a little bit, you guys, 'cause you know, I like to nerd out on this stuff, but like I've been saying, this is a hormonal chemical, however you wanna say that thing going on physiologically in the body.

It's actually really cool to understand.

I. This hormonal part, I think, not because it necessarily tells you what to do, but it just reiterates this is not about you.

This is about your body, and so you don't have to feel any shame or feel badly for what is going on.

So essentially a big overview when we are breastfeeding.

Our oxytocin rising.

That is what causes milk release, right?

Because we need to make milk.

We need to release milk.

There's different things going on for breastfeeding, and this applies again, to expressing, okay, so pumping or breastfeeding.

When I'm talking about that pumping is breastfeeding, so we're lumping it all together.

So when we're expressing or we wanna be making milk, oxytocin rises, it causes milk release.

Dopamine gets involved in this milk process because dopamine, which is, you know, essentially a feel-good hormone, it has to fall.

So prolactin, which is your milk making home hormone, can make more milk.

So we have oxytocin, dopamine, and prolactin.

Dopamine is the big player when it comes to D-MER.

Okay.

Oxytocin rises for milk release, dopamine falls so prolactin can rise and make more milk.

And what happens with dimer is that that dopamine falls too far.

For whatever reason I. That mom and that fall of dopamine triggers these feelings.

And again, like I've told you, I didn't have it with my first baby.

So it's not necessarily like, oh, my dopamine always falls way too low.

But yours doesn't for what?

Yeah, it's just for whatever reason I. In these moments with those babies, my dopamine was falling too far, but we don't really fully know why.

And again, your dopamine falls during all of your letdowns too.

But for some reason, some people have this impact, this dysphoria associated with that, and most don't.

Okay?

Right?

90% aren't gonna experience this, which is a very big number as well.

So what I want you to hear.

That this is a reflexive condition too.

It can't be stopped.

I think that's like the one big thing.

I'm a fixer, right?

Tell me what to do and I'll fix it.

'cause this sucks.

I don't wanna do this.

But it's a reflex, right?

You tap your knee, your foot jerks, you can't stop it.

You can be staring at it.

You can know the cause.

You can know everything that's going on physiologically, but you can't stop it.

And I think that's valuable again, because you can let go right of the responsibility of it and just say.

I have this, what can I do to make it better or easier because I obviously can't stop it.

I know I've mentioned risk factors a tiny bit already.

And you know, prevailing one is really, if you've had dimer once I. You are pretty darn likely to have it again, my personal experience showed that to be true.

Didn't have with one, had it with 2, 3, 4.

I think one thing that's interesting is that, you know, like medical history or life experiences don't cause this.

There's no association between maybe a history of sexual abuse or something going on with a body that then says, oh, you're at higher risk for D-MER.

They're just not connected.

This is this chemical hormonal thing.

Things get out of whack for whatever reason.

Then you end up being someone who has D-MER, but it's not related to what's gone on in your health history, prior, medical, personal, any of that.

I will say, and I thought this was really cool, I had read this on the website about D-MER that Alina has if she, she talks about how I felt, like I told you, I felt this significant grief.

When I first started experiencing dimer, like it felt very related to my mother and her death, and it's likely why I just was so miserable that specific baby in that time 'cause it was so heavy.

And it's not that I actually was grieving right, or that that was actually going on.

But what Alina kind of discussed this is so interesting is that that fall of dopamine during the dimer experience.

Almost can bring you back to like that idea of deja vu, right?

Where you remember other experiences where your dopamine was too low, like after a significant loss or in some deep stage of grief or another situation where your feel good hormones are not.

They need to be or they're not doing what they need to do.

And so you have kind of a similar experience in this breastfeeding situation to what you were experiencing during this other low dopamine situation.

I hope that makes sense.

When I read that, I thought, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.

I had not read that kind of my first time researching and digging into all this, and then it made so much sense for me because I've always felt like that.

Second baby dimer experience was so personal to the loss that I had just recently experienced with my mom.

The last thing I would say too about risk factors is that I think that when we understand kind of where this comes from, which is basically random, it can help you also with coping, right?

So it's back to that this isn't your fault, you didn't do anything, but let's be proactive about what we can do, right?

'cause this is not something about a mistake you made.

We're just gonna move forward and figure out what we can do with it before we get to those coping strategies, support, things like that.

I do wanna clarify one last time that DMR is not a psychological, like perinatal mental health disorder.

Okay.

Or that PMAD that we use a lot for the, that full spectrum.

So perinatal disorders, you know, depression, postpartum anxiety, the OCD compulsions, there's a few things that fit in that spectrum.

They also apply to our entire perinatal season, right?

So we're not just talking about postpartum when we talk about PMAD, but regardless, D-MER is not part of that, and that's because those are mental health disorders.

They kind of have a different physiology around them.

Whereas D-MER is just this reflexive condition that I keep, you know, reminding you of this is a physiological reflective thing, it is not a mental health disorder.

I think it's also helpful to hear that it is not.

The same thing as like breastfeeding aversion.

I think sometimes people can have that, you know, you're pregnant and all of a sudden you don't wanna breastfeed.

Or you can have nipple aversions at different times in times where you don't wanna breastfeed, maybe because it's painful or whatever.

And so you think, oh, I have anxiety around breastfeeding too.

I think I have this, but let's go back.

What did I tell you?

The biggest tell is?

It's that brevity, right?

This D-MER experience with let down goes away, let down again, hear you feel badly goes away.

And so we have to remember that.

Aversions are more consuming, right?

They're more persistent.

If you have a depressive or anxiety disorder, one of those, those are more persistent.

You feel them throughout.

So those are not the same, and it's really valuable to hear that because it can get a little confusing when you are struggling with maybe two of them, maybe three of them at the same time.

What's going on?

But for those of you who just have D-MER, your tell is that brevity and how quickly it comes and goes, and that helps you kind of know a, what it is and then two, you know how to treat or how to move forward.

The other thing that I would tell you is that if you do happen to have A-P-M-A-D, it can make deemer that much harder to handle.

And personally, that was my big struggle in that space too, is come to find out another thing that I was.

Not necessarily ignoring.

I like to be gracious to that broken, broken mama that I was back then, but I had significant anxiety and I didn't really realize that until later.

So it was presenting a lot earlier.

So I had very significant postpartum anxiety.

I had what felt like pretty moderate D-MER.

I wouldn't say severe, I didn't mention this prior, but severe D-MER can actually lead to suicidal ideation or ideation of self-harm.

So I've never been there, but it can happen.

And so I think it's valuable again to understand the spectrum there.

But I had that combo of a PMA emer together and pretty significant deemer, and it made probably my deemer a lot harder to handle.

And I can tell you, you know, years later after having two more babies after that experience and having D-MER with both those babies, baby.

Number two, that D-MER experience was absolutely the worst.

So probably a lot of things going on there, but it was the only one combined with a pma, and it was quite brutal.

But that brings me to coping strategies, support, what do you do, right?

Because I didn't just twirl around forever, aimlessly wondering what was going on.

We started to figure things out.

I'll say the first thing I did is eventually.

Talked to my midwife and I said, uh, excuse me, you wanna talk to me about this?

'cause I just discovered this thing again.

I Googled right?

And I figured this out in theory on my own, 'cause I'd never heard about it.

But then I reached out to my midwife and she kind of said, oh yeah, I've heard of it.

You know, it was kind of, she wasn't unhelpful.

I just don't think there was a ton of education for her about it.

And so it was kind of one of those, it is a thing.

Yeah.

I think, you know, I've heard of this.

Uh, you know, let us know if it's significant.

It was kind of this, I don't wanna say a bad combo, but there wasn't a lot to it.

Right.

But that's partly because when it comes to D-MER, especially mild or moderate, you know, these lower ends of the spectrum, there isn't a lot you can do.

One of the big things that actually in theory can treat it is awareness, right?

And that was a game changer for me.

As soon as I understood, like I keep telling you that this isn't about me and how I feel about my daughter, the shame kind of got removed and the blinders kind of came off and I could look at it as a physical thing now.

It still sucked.

I still felt all of it, but that awareness of what was going on, that just changed.

Everything.

And so if anything, if there's a single goal for the podcast today, it's that, that I'm making you aware so that should you run into this, you're gonna say, she taught me about this.

I remember this.

I don't like this.

This sucks.

But also this isn't about me.

This is my body and you know, here's what I'm gonna do about it.

There are other things besides awareness that can kind of get.

Recommended to you.

Let's say, people will talk about healthy lifestyle, proper nutrition, hydration, and rest.

Some people say, Hey, keep it log or a journal and kind of log your symptoms.

Pay attention to, you know, is it worse in the morning?

Is it worse at night?

Is it worse when you haven't gotten any sleep?

Maybe it's because you drink too much caffeine.

Are you stressed?

Essentially, you know, a healthier body.

If we think like full body, including what are we putting in and out of it is going to help you handle this better, right?

But here's the challenge.

You guys, we're postpartum, we're not exactly always eating what we need to, drinking what we need to.

Lord knows we're not getting the sleep that we need to.

So.

I like, of course I'm gonna tell you there are some things you can do and think about, but I also wanna acknowledge this is very much often a do the best you can situation because Lord knows I could not always eat, drink, and rest the way that I wanted to with my two little girls under two.

And so kind of like, okay, thank you for the advice.

I will do my best.

Thanks.

And so there is some of that.

You can also, you can get support from a lactation consultant, maybe support group like other people who just can say, I get it.

I had a big, for me telling Kelvin, Hey, I still feel so crappy.

Like I have continued to do that with every baby.

And every once in a while he'll say, how do you feel?

Are you still experiencing D-MER?

You know?

And he will literally ask me and it just gives me.

A couple minutes to say, yeah, I'd love your grace and your empathy with this because it really sucks.

And I think that can sound silly, right?

Like almost that you're fishing for someone to feel bad for you.

And it's not that, but I think it's just an awareness.

D-MER such a silent thing so you can struggle and be hurting.

And yes, it's brief and it goes away or whatever, but a year, let's say you breastfeed your baby for a year.

Maybe you go eight months, maybe you go 18.

If you do happen to experience it, the entirety of your breastfeeding experience, that is a long time to continually feel these waves of negative emotion.

And I didn't say this earlier, I may as well throw it in now.

For some people you experience this dysphoria, the entirety of your breastfeeding journey.

Other people, it gets milder and milder as the months go by.

So again, back to that spectrum idea, it's very possible that you, I. We'll have a different experience than me, but regardless whether you experienced this for six hard months or for four or for 14, I think it's a lot to kind of carry that alone.

And so for me, a big thing, and I think this is why seeking support can be so valuable from whoever that is.

Could be an lc, a support group, your best friend, your husband, whatever.

I do think it's valuable to say, Hey, I still feel crappy, man.

This is just rough.

And just have the freedom to say that and have someone say, Ugh, I see you.

You know?

I feel you in that.

I think that that's super, super helpful.

So I would encourage you to speak up and speak out.

I remember talking about it at work once I had figured out what was going on and I had nurses.

From all the decades, all the ages coming up to me.

I love these older nurses in their fifties, in their sixties, they were coming up to me and they were Lo.

I think I had this 35 years ago with my son, and I had no idea.

I still remember this one nurse, she was in her sixties and she was dumb founded.

I. Because as soon as I started talking about it, it's like all these pieces clicked and she thought I had this.

I had no idea.

And even all these years later, I think there was this sweet relief for her of that wasn't about me.

This is wild.

Like almost a freedom to not feel badly for how, how she felt.

Breastfeed her son 35 years ago.

So support, talking about it so, so valuable.

You will probably be surprised to find that there are absolutely some moms who stand next to you and are walking through it too.

If you realize that this is something that you are going through.

The last thing I would say too is in terms of seeking professional help, I would reach out to your care provider straight away.

You know, put this on their radar, just see if they have any ideas for you.

Of course, if you have severe D-MER, if it's causing any sort of ideation of harm toward yourself or baby.

Yes, of course you don't need me to tell you.

That is an instant red flag.

But if it's also causing you to want to quit breastfeeding when otherwise you would not want to, that's severe and significant as well.

And your provider needs to know about that because they can potentially step in and help you mitigate that circumstance or figure out is there another solution.

So this mama doesn't have to stop breastfeeding when that is her ultimate goal.

Clinically, I will say.

There has been some success with treating those with severe D-MER, with dopamine, essentially like giving them some extra dopamine because as you guys now know, this is about not having enough kind of, or having those levels get too low.

So it's not just a blanket, you know, prescription that we give to everyone that has D-MER, but it is a possibility, and particularly for those with severe deemer that should enter the conversation, those who have more mild or moderate deemer and are continuing their breastfeeding journaling without.

Other issues, typically they're not gonna recommend a prescription for you, but it is something that can be brought to the table and if that's what you need because you do wanna continue or you know, you are having some significant issue, otherwise, uh, I think you need to know about that one.

So they're not gonna give it to you right away, but it's definitely something that could be offered or enter the combo when needed.

Ultimately, you guys, I hope that this is not a. Oh crap.

I seriously did not wanna think about another thing related to breastfeeding conversation.

Like I told you when we started, there's already a lot on your plate when it comes to breastfeeding, and I want you to want it, and I wanna support you in that.

You know, that's why I have my Breastfeeding Blueprint course, and that's why we teach about it on Instagram all the time because I think it's an incredible thing.

And if that's what you want, I want that for you.

I don't wanna help you get it, but.

This specific situation, this steamer condition, I think it can challenge breastfeeding in such a way that it may lead you to wanna quit because you simply can't figure out why you don't feel the way you thought you would feel when you breastfeed.

And I would hate for you to quit.

I. Only because this is going on and otherwise you want it so badly.

So that's my hope here, right?

Is this, this awareness.

Let's continue this conversation and let's kind of keep sharing about this.

Not necessarily because we want to terrify everyone, but because we don't want you feeling alone if you have it.

I also think that there's a good chance that this is a lot more prevalent than we realize, and once we continue to talk about it more, once research leans in a little bit more.

We may find that this is a lot more prolific than we prior, you know?

Understood prior, which only means that we're creating more of a safe space for us to look at each other and say, oh yeah, I see you.

I get it.

That one is rough.

And if we can create those spaces for each other, then we are doing something right.

Don't you think?

So?

Hopefully this is valuable.

Hopefully it's more a message of hope than a Oh no.

And I just, if you have a similar experience or something.

You know, reach out.

Let me know.

I think the more we share these, the more we are going to continue to kind of support each other in this when it is something that comes up in our own stories.

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