1

Speaker: Motherhood is all consuming.

2

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and

there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

3

Speaker 2: It's a privilege of being your child's safest space

and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

4

Speaker 3: The truth is, I can be having the best time

being a mom one minute, and then the next time questioning.

5

My life choices.

6

Speaker: I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four

Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy

middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

7

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and

then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such

thing as a best way to do any of this, and we're leaning into that truth here.

8

With the mix of real life and what the textbook

says, expert Insights and Practical Applications.

9

Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate

in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

10

This is the lo and behold podcast.

11

Lo: All right, you guys.

12

I. Hesitated or it took me a long time to wanna record this podcast episode.

13

I'm gonna share my second birth story with you today, this one happened.

14

This baby showed up in just the middle of a lot of really, really hard things.

15

I would say that I was.

16

Maybe the worst version of myself, not necessarily through my own fault,

but just everything that was going on in my life and that had been going

on in my life prior to that point had just taken everything from me.

17

So if you listen to episode one, I share my first birth story.

18

And in that birth story you will hear that my mom was kind of dying as I was pregnant

and had gotten diagnosed with cancer, that eventually ended up taking her life.

19

And she died when my first daughter was about.

20

Four or five months, postpartum, four to five months old.

21

And so this baby came on the heels of that, which I would tell you is.

22

You know, one of the greatest, the greatest loss of my life at this point.

23

And so naturally, especially if you're someone who maybe is also close to your mom, you

maybe understand like how devastating of a loss that can be compounded by the fact that.

24

I was trying to learn how to become a mom, right?

25

And so to put those two things together, that first postpartum, that first

kind of step into being a mother, combined with this massive, enormous

grief of losing your own mother and walking through that, and then

having to deal with the hard things that come after you lose somebody.

26

From, you know, little things like cleaning out closets to the

big things, like acknowledging the reality that they're gone.

27

That's where I was.

28

Okay.

29

And that's like such a dreary picture to paint to start.

30

But I think that so much of this second pregnancy and this second birth in

my second postpartum, which I do wanna get into with you as well today, was.

31

Overshadowed or overwhelmed by where I was at, where my

body was at, where my head was at, where my heart was at.

32

And so I think it's important to understand that when you listen to this story, because

it can sound like, good Lord, what a horrific transition, you know, from one to two or.

33

Deciding to have another baby and how hard it was, and

that's really scary for me as I decide to have another baby.

34

But I think that kind of idea of transition and when it feels

harder and when things are harder for some of us versus others of

us, that idea is really, impacted by where we're at in our lives.

35

It's not just like, oh, it's a lot harder to

have one baby, or two, or three or four or seven.

36

It's also about what's going on.

37

And so for me and what was going on in my life during all of this transition.

38

That I think has been just a huge part of kind of my answer.

39

When someone says, Hey, what was your hardest transition?

40

Or what, you know, from what to what kid kind of rocked you the most?

41

It was this one, but that's not necessarily gonna be true for everyone.

42

I think it's just.

43

True for me, especially because of all this stuff going on that I just laid out for you.

44

I'll tell you, I have written a blog post about this birth.

45

I just love to write and so I have put words to the birth process, and I just read it.

46

And started crying.

47

So if I can get through this podcast episode without crying, it's gonna be a miracle.

48

I'm gonna try really, really hard.

49

But I think it's kind of, again, just one last little testament of, of how kind

of broken and messy things were for me when this sweet baby came into our lives.

50

So this pregnancy was a little bit unexpected.

51

And I say that, I always say that kind of like, but not really because.

52

I know how babies are made.

53

So do you And we had, my first baby was about 1-year-old.

54

My mom had died a few months prior, like I just said.

55

And we had always thought like, oh, we'll have babies about two years apart, right?

56

So this wasn't like wildly close or a huge gap the other way.

57

But we thought if we can control this right when we get

pregnant, we'll try to have babies about two months apart.

58

I'm sorry, two years apart.

59

And so we were at.

60

Kind of getting close to that point, but we were not talking about having another baby.

61

We were not talking about getting pregnant again, especially

because of everything that I was walking through personally.

62

But my period had returned pretty late with my first daughter.

63

, Not until about, until she was about 1-year-old.

64

And so I'd had one cycle, and you're probably all like, why are you talking about this?

65

But it's because I had thought, oh, we'll do the natural family planning

method between, you know, baby number one and hopeful baby number

two, which basically means you just track your cycle and all this.

66

The signs of your cycle and all that, and then you

know, when it is safe to have sex and when it is not.

67

And so I had thought we could do that.

68

However, I'd only had my cycle back for one month, and

so I thought I like had a handle on my cycle being back.

69

And well come to find out.

70

Raise your hand if you have had a baby and you've realized

that when your cycle first comes back, it's super irregular.

71

It can be all over the place.

72

It might come back and then go away again.

73

And then come back.

74

I just hadn't, this is my first time doing this, right?

75

'cause I'm postpartum with my first baby.

76

And so, I wasn't.

77

Totally right about what was going on.

78

And so we ended up getting pregnant, which was a huge shock I

think, just 'cause we thought, oh, we've got this figured out.

79

And I think also just because we were in that mindset, but I also would

say it was more of a shock for my husband because I was pretty sure.

80

What, like knowing what was going on in my body, I was pretty

sure pretty quickly I thought we're gonna get pregnant.

81

Like, I started to see the signs and know, and I didn't share that with

him because I didn't wanna like throw something at him or freak him

out, until, until we were, you know, until I was able to take a test.

82

And so this was over the Christmas season and I, we flew home for the holidays.

83

It was the first holiday without my mom.

84

So there was all this, you know, side story of all of that going on.

85

And so I just kind of carried around this little

wondering in my head of, I wonder if I'm pregnant again.

86

And I didn't wanna take a test.

87

This might sound so silly to some people, but I didn't wanna take a test.

88

Like I, we were staying at my sister's house and I didn't wanna take a

test like with them or like run to the CVS in Washington and do it there.

89

Like I wanted to know.

90

Like in my own space and in my own timing.

91

And so I said, I'm just gonna wait and take a test, when we get home from Christmas.

92

So we got home, flew back to Colorado, took a

test, and lo and behold, yes, I was pregnant.

93

But I'm telling you, I really was not shocked at that point because I was so sure.

94

But I was thinking, oh, Kelvin's gonna be super surprised.

95

This is gonna be quite the little Christmas present.

96

So when I told Kel, I think he was a little bit.

97

It not, this wasn't this horrible thing, right?

98

We obviously, we wanted more children and we were going

to get to the point of having this conversation very soon.

99

So I think it was more like, oh, it didn't work.

100

Like I thought we were gonna do this thing and it was gonna work.

101

And it was more like, whoops, sorry.

102

It didn't work.

103

So we were pregnant again.

104

And at this point, it was basically the new year.

105

Our first had turned one.

106

She was like 13 months old at the time.

107

So we were looking at, you know, practically

speaking that two under two life was coming for us.

108

The pregnancy itself was completely uncomplicated.

109

And I say that with gratitude, of course, I think like most of us do, if we can say that.

110

But also a little bit of shock.

111

I think when I look backwards.

112

It was wild to me and it still is how my body.

113

Gave everything to the baby that it needed while I literally had.

114

Nothing to give, if that makes sense.

115

Like I was the thinnest that I had ever been, this is like post grief, life that I was in.

116

So I'm kind of shocked I even got pregnant with all the stress

that I was under, but the thinnest I'd ever been, even though I

was postpartum, I was actually still nursing my first daughter.

117

so I was still in all in that with those hormonal changes that

sometimes, you know, could even keep you from getting pregnant.

118

I just was not.

119

Healthy, like mind, body, heart, but my body, which I think is

kind of a really cool testament to how we can kind of still show

up and our bodies give their baby our babies what they need.

120

And that might take everything from us.

121

So.

122

That's another comboo about how we have to be careful with that.

123

But it's really wild to me to think like, what a miracle that I grew this healthy baby

and had this healthy pregnancy when I would really tell you I was not okay at all.

124

But the pregnancy was, it was uncomplicated.

125

This baby tracked on.

126

Like all the markers, the whole time I felt like I was doing the exact same

thing I'd done, you know, 24 months ago I was gaining the same amount of weight.

127

I felt the same.

128

So I felt really good physically.

129

I was not at the bedside at this point.

130

I had had to quit my job during my maternity leave.

131

'cause that was when my mom was really not doing well, and so I couldn't.

132

And I wasn't able to go back and I got to spend a little bit more

time with her and she with my daughter, until she passed away.

133

And so I wasn't working at the bedside at this point, but I felt great.

134

I felt like I did my first pregnancy in terms of, you

know, physically again, mentally, emotionally not okay.

135

But my body was doing a really beautiful job at growing this baby.

136

as we got closer to the end, it kind of was like a. All systems go type thing.

137

Again, I was still seeing my midwives who I had seen in my first birth,

and these are the midwives that I'd worked with up to this point.

138

Was still planning to deliver at the hospital that I worked with and kind of.

139

Essentially like recreate the story that I shared with you in episode one of, I wanna

do the same thing, like I want a midwife birth Kelvin's gonna be my support person.

140

We had taken a birth class, the one I talked about in that first episode, and so Kel was

onboard again with, Hey, we're gonna try and do this a medicated, you and I are a team.

141

Of course, now we did not have the option of maybe inviting my

mom in, which had been a discussion the first time, and then.

142

That was unfortunately an option that was taken away from us because of her health.

143

But it really was just like, all right, it's you and me this time.

144

so I would say we were very ready, in that regard.

145

Like we had our education, we felt really comfortable at this point.

146

We were bringing wisdom forward from the first babies, so we thought like, all right.

147

We know what to do.

148

We're gonna do this again, and it's, it's gonna be great.

149

It really felt like very, we felt very confident.

150

I would say the one thing that's really different, and if you

have had more than one baby, I think this will resonate with

you, but the idea of going into labor or having the next baby.

151

When you already have a kiddo at home, now it's kind of a game changer, right?

152

For your heart.

153

And I remember the stress of that, like practically

speaking, like who is gonna take care of M while we're gone?

154

Or if I go into labor in the middle of the night, or what if I go fast?

155

Like all those things that start coming at you when

you have kids and you're kind of worried about.

156

Those things.

157

It's not just like, oh, I'll go into labor and we'll just drive to the hospital.

158

That is not true anymore.

159

And so I remember that and I felt that with all my kids since this point of like,

that feels like such a big burden and stress for us of who, who can be there,

you know, if it happens in the middle of the night or during the day or whatever.

160

And so we got those things figured out, of course, but I remember that

being such a. Pressing part of the story and you know you'll hear the

rest of it once we get to the point where it was time for me to go.

161

But I do remember that being a really different headspace that we were into.

162

So with my first, I went into labor at 39 and two and for whatever reason I'd shared

with you guys with my first baby, I thought like, I will not have this baby in December.

163

I had had a December due date and I just thought, I'm gonna have a November baby.

164

No reason for that thought, but that's what I had and it did turn out being true.

165

This baby, again, I think I had the unwarranted expectation that I would not

go overdo that I would have this baby around the same time as I have my first.

166

None of that is true.

167

You can have your baby at all your babies at all different times, but for whatever reason.

168

This is how I felt.

169

And so I hit 39 and two and was super grumpy and cranky and thought like, I don't get it.

170

Why am I, why am I still pregnant?

171

I had my other baby right now, like this is ridiculous.

172

And so I remember going to bed that night just grouchy about all the things.

173

And I mean, I'm sure you kinda have, I kind of have rose colored glasses, I

think about some of this, but I'm sure I was uncomfortable and all of that stuff.

174

The, my second baby was super active, so I do remember like she.

175

It felt like she was beating me up at night at this

point, you know, when she was moving around and stuff.

176

So there were some almost complaints of like, this kid is hurting me.

177

We did not know if it was a boy or a girl.

178

So again, it was a surprise of what is this kid doing in there?

179

And I know that I was kind of ready to stop being pummeled

every night when I went to lay down and go to sleep.

180

So I do remember that.

181

So we went to bed 39 and two.

182

And like I had said with me thinking I wasn't gonna have a

December baby with my first, I had this idea of this baby.

183

My due date was Labor Day, so in September, and with this

baby, I thought, I'm not gonna have a September baby.

184

I want this baby to come in August.

185

Again, just a total silly want, but I think that was part of my grumpiness,

went to bed, zero signs of labor and just like with my first, I feel like I've

said that four times, but there were a lot of similarities in these stories.

186

I woke up in the middle of the night.

187

It was 1 22 and I woke up and had to pee.

188

It was just like with my first daughter.

189

I had woken up and I thought, huh, like I think I just have to go to the bathroom.

190

Went to the bathroom, laid back down, and then realized the

contraction woke me up, and this was like textbook or deja vu.

191

The same thing happened again.

192

So I went to the bathroom thought, Hmm, I wonder if a contraction woke me up.

193

Laid there five minutes later, had another one, and then I realized

like pretty quickly, like, nope, those are contractions again.

194

That's that like wisdom that you can pull forward once you've, you've

had a baby and felt and gone through some of these sinks, then I

had another one five minutes later, so it was like boom, boom, boom.

195

Regular noticeable.

196

I wouldn't say like wildly painful, but I was certainly like I am having contractions

had one more, so I had four contractions, so it was about 20 minutes or so of time.

197

And I was like, it's time to go.

198

And with my first baby, I spent a couple hours laboring.

199

Kelvin kept sleeping.

200

He was sleeping at this point as well, but I didn't

wake him up because I knew, Hey, this takes time.

201

Things are gonna build.

202

What's the rush?

203

Like, I don't need him right now.

204

this time around, I definitely had that.

205

Knowledge and, and nurse mentality as well of second babies come fast.

206

My first labor was 10 hours from start to finish, so

technically that's very pretty quick for a first timer.

207

And the, my first baby had been born immediately after my

water broke, like within minutes, and so I very much had this.

208

Feeling of like, as soon as I know I'm in labor

with my second baby, I'm going to the hospital.

209

Hospital because I bet this is going to go fast.

210

And so there wasn't really hesitation for me.

211

As soon as I had those few contractions consistently five

minutes apart, I just felt like I'm waking up Kelvin.

212

I'm calling my girlfriend Rebecca, and it's time for us to go.

213

And so that was our plan.

214

I did, I woke Kelly up.

215

I said, Hey.

216

I've had these contractions, I'm gonna call Becca.

217

There was not a ton of discussion back and forth.

218

I think Kel kind of innately just trusted me, and

we talked about this, Hey, second baby's come fast.

219

Like I think we're gonna have to move quickly, or

we need to be prepared for that possibility anyway.

220

And so I feel like he just jumped right up, jumped

in the shower, and I called Becca pretty quickly.

221

It's a nurse that I work with as well, and so she was.

222

Obviously very attuned to labor patterns and me and

how kind of think quickly she needed to be there.

223

Of course, she was scheduled to work the next day, so that

wasn't easy for her and her family, but they figured it out.

224

So she came over and or she started to drive over and essentially she lived right

by the hospital where we'd both work together and where we were going to drive.

225

But it was the middle of the night, so our first daughter was sleeping, so it was

like, gosh, it'd be so much easier to just like drop our kiddo with you on the way.

226

But that was not something I felt like comfortable

with, nor were we in that big of a rush.

227

I was more like, just get here as soon as you can.

228

You can go to sleep.

229

I'm still sleeping and we're gonna take off.

230

so she came pretty darn quickly.

231

Which I'm grateful for because I do remember that stress

of being home and waiting for someone and contractions.

232

So just getting.

233

Closer and stronger, and you're like, I felt pr.

234

I mean, pretty darn certain.

235

I'm in labor.

236

This is real.

237

And so it was more just like, I hope this doesn't turn the corner

before she's here, because then I don't know what we're gonna do.

238

So I remember that stress as well that you don't

have, again, that first time because it just.

239

Just don't think really it's gonna go that way or that typically it doesn't go that way.

240

So once Beck showed up, we got in the car pretty quickly and just took, took off.

241

And I was very much in the point of like, I wanna be there, like maybe this isn't

quite, you know, active labor or whatever, but I, I think it's gonna turn quickly.

242

so I just wanna be there at home.

243

And so, like, the first drive, Kel, I think does a really good job of kind of like.

244

Talking me through the drive a little bit because it's usually quiet.

245

I've always been in active labor or transition, like I don't,

I'm not interested in talking, but I'm also very interested in

getting there very quickly and it's always like a 25 minute drive.

246

So the drive is a little bit of a blur.

247

I had, I think one big hope and prayer in that moment, as did Kelvin.

248

'cause he is always terrified of having car babies.

249

But that hope is like, please, please, bag of water, don't break.

250

Because if that bag of water breaks.

251

We think this baby might be coming.

252

And so Kel would count down as we drove, like, Hey, you're doing great.

253

We have 17 minutes to go.

254

We have 14 minutes to go.

255

And he, I just remember him tracking the time and just letting me know, because you do, I

mean, if you're, if you're able to think logically, you can do a little bit of math right?

256

And know, all right.

257

If there's like 11 minutes left, probably three more

contractions in the car or whatever, based on your pattern.

258

And so I remember having those thoughts of like, okay, this many more, this many more.

259

We're almost there because being in the car is the worst, even if you're not miserable.

260

I think if you've done this, you can attest it like nobody wants to labor

in the car, whether you're in early labor, active labor, or transition.

261

It's just.

262

Not where we wanna be, right?

263

So we got in to the parking lot parked, walked into

the ER entrance because it was the middle of the night.

264

I think it was around like 3 30, 3 45 at this point.

265

So it'd been a couple hours since I'd woken, woken, Kelvin,

gotten things going, gotten Becca to our house, things like that.

266

And so I remember walking into the er.

267

I'm at my hospital.

268

When you get to the ER in the middle of the night.

269

They call up to ob, right?

270

And then we would walk down to the er 'cause our, we were upstairs from the

ER entrance and the nurse would have to come down and get you in the middle of

the night and or get the patient and then they'd walk you back up to the unit.

271

And then, you know, OB would take over from there.

272

And I remember the nurse walking towards me, it's a coworker and her friend, and

she kind of stood at the end of this long hallway, I'll never forget her face.

273

And she kind of looked at me and she cocked her head and she just had this.

274

She's a mom of Flo as well, she'd had this look on her face like this, like, Hey.

275

Like, you're good.

276

Like, like she just knew where I was at and what I was feeling.

277

And there wasn't this like, what's your contraction pattern?

278

Like, tell me everything that's going on.

279

It was just like, let's go upstairs.

280

Let's have a baby.

281

And I'll never forget that feeling.

282

There was no explaining myself or anything to her to like prove.

283

She just kind of trusted me like the moment she saw me.

284

I don't know that she knows that she like did that by the way she

looked at me, but I think it's kind of powerful to think about.

285

How even as a nurse or your other care providers as well, their nonverbal

communication, the way they look at you, the way they speak to you,

it really can like speak volumes to you inside of what you're feeling.

286

And she really did.

287

I think I just felt like, all right, I'm where I need to be.

288

They believe me, like, let's have this baby.

289

So this time around we did not go into triage, which is different than first, first story.

290

She just took me straight to a room, which again,

I think is a really cool, just signup trust.

291

And her and her like professional skill as well to see

that I talk about the emotional signposts of labor a lot.

292

And I have a podcast episode about that as well that I can link for you.

293

It's episode 10.

294

But I felt like she, like, recognized the signposts in me and just

didn't need to get really clinical, if you will, or like have all these

numbers or things to say, oh yeah, she should, she should be here.

295

She just.

296

Could look at me.

297

And so it's a nod to her as well as a nurse and her skill,

as a nurse in seeing me and recognizing what was going on.

298

So I got admitted straight to the room, and then we did the standard 20 minutes of

fetal monitoring, which most hospitals require when you first get there, is that

they want at least like 20 or 30 minutes to see how's the baby looking in there.

299

Like how are they responding to contractions essentially?

300

Is this a reactive NST?

301

So they're seeing.

302

Movement and accelerations and things like that to say, Hey, baby's doing great.

303

so they did that.

304

And then, we actually took the monitors off with this baby.

305

We did not do any cervical exams or anything like that either, and we did not start an iv.

306

My nurse's stance was super sweet.

307

She's like, I can start one.

308

I don't have to start one.

309

I really don't care if we need one later.

310

I can throw it in.

311

Like, I'm really just not worried about this for you.

312

And so I thought that was really.

313

She did a good job with that as well.

314

She was like, either way, your choice not a big deal to me.

315

And if we need it later, like, I'm comfortable with

my skills to put one in later and we can reassess.

316

So, at that point I just said, why do, like we hadn't

used my, we didn't use my IV at all with my first baby.

317

This one was progressing just like that first scenario.

318

And so it was kind of like, well, we'll just put it in later.

319

And she's a good IB starter, which I knew from work.

320

And so I also knew like, hey, if.

321

So something was needed immediately.

322

She could get my IV in very quickly.

323

So that's a nice little reassurance that I knew as well.

324

So we basically didn't do anything.

325

It was a very, I would say, like intervened upon birth, showed up.

326

I did the monitoring, which I always prefer anyway, so I

would never personally want to argue that I'm monitoring.

327

I stay outta bed anyway.

328

We put the monitors on and then I'm like on the

birthing ball or I'm standing, or I'm whatever.

329

I'm just.

330

Like close to the machine for that 20 minutes and then they came off.

331

Transition came very quickly, like labor itself, these 90

minutes or so, I would say were a blur of just doing the things.

332

A lot of breath work for me is one of my primary, like

go-tos and tools and then I like the birthing balls.

333

So I end up sitting there for a while doing labor there.

334

And then I. End up on hands and knees on the floor.

335

It's like that's my jam.

336

it continues to happen in my other birth stories,

which I will share in future episodes as well.

337

But it's like if you see me in my hands and knees on the floor.

338

I'm gonna have a baby soon, and so I ended up in hands and knees on the floor.

339

Kelvin really, again, just did such a good job, like just such a testament

to the education that he'd received prior with our first baby that did

make him so confident and so, trusting of the birth process then I think.

340

Again, I keep talking about it, but the wisdom we pull forward, right?

341

Like this.

342

At this point, he would probably say, I'm an experienced dad.

343

I've done this before.

344

So whatever fear I think that he had the first

time, I would say the majority of it was gone now.

345

'cause he'd seen this process.

346

He knew that it worked.

347

He knew that we could trust the people around us.

348

He'd been at my hospital for all kinds of things

related to work as well as having the prior baby.

349

So it just felt like he was just like, cool, let's just do this.

350

And there wasn't any fear or anxiety.

351

And then there was a lot of competence in how he could support me and trust.

352

Trust what's going on and the trust of people around us.

353

So I love that, that for him, that confidence and trust that he had.

354

It was really cool to see and then reflect on and then to see with

subsequent babies too emotionally, like I feel like the one thing I remember.

355

As labor got very close to the end was that flip into transition.

356

And I don't know like what time that happened, if you're tracking my time right now.

357

But at some point it was very clear like.

358

Oh shoot.

359

Like I remember this and I don't wanna do this again.

360

I remember like laying my head on Kelvin's shoulder or leaning back against him.

361

We were on the floor in hands and knees or something.

362

So sometimes I would lean back against him, between contractions

and I started crying and it was just this, it hurt so bad.

363

I do not want to do this again.

364

that's such a clear.

365

Example of the emotional signpost of that

self-doubt and that like, I can't do this anymore.

366

And that is, that means we are in transition, right?

367

And so it was fun.

368

Not fun.

369

I can't believe I just said fun.

370

It was cool to go through that signpost and almost in the moment,

I don't think I was like, oh, this is a signpost, ding, ding, ding.

371

But I think Kelvin can recognize it.

372

And then when we would reflect back on the birth, he'd be like, man, you did it again.

373

You went from this to this to this.

374

And when you said this.

375

You went into a transition and you could just like see all the pieces come together.

376

And so we did in some way, you know, shape or form.

377

We understood like, this is it.

378

We're at the point where we're very, very close.

379

My water broke.

380

Again, in hands and knees on the floor.

381

And we had meconium again.

382

And you know, I'm sitting here, I can't remember if I even

mentioned this in my first birth story, maybe it got lost in all

the details, but water broke in meconium with my first baby as well.

383

Water broke with meconium again.

384

And I remember thinking, are you kidding me?

385

Like, why do I, why do I keep having these babies with meconium?

386

Especially because I'd gone into labor kind of early in theory, right?

387

Like 39 weeks is, is.

388

Fully, you know, your full term, but it's kind of earlier than the average.

389

And sometimes we see meconium more often with babies who are post dates

or actually getting into like 41 weeks or certainly like 42 and overdue.

390

so it just kind of was surprising to me, like, why do I have meconium again?

391

What would be the reason for it?

392

And there can be other reasons for it.

393

So it wasn't super shocking, but I remember always

thinking almost more of an eye roll response.

394

Get outta here.

395

And I think the reason for that too is because when you do have meconium

in the waters, it just means the NNP is gonna come to the birth as well,

like a neonatal nurse practitioner, maybe some extra people just in

case there are signs of like meconium aspiration syndrome or baby has.

396

Some struggles transitioning because of the meconium in the water.

397

So it just creates this like little extra layer of care that

may become necessary, maybe an extra person or two in the room.

398

And so I think in the back of my head I was like, Ugh.

399

You know, that might introduce an issue that I would

prefer not to introduce if we had that choice, you know?

400

But regardless, water breaking and there's this pretty immediate

response to of this baby's coming, and so I immediately.

401

Got up off the floor and got into the bed and my midwife and

nurse, they'd kind of just been in the background up to this point.

402

I'm pretty sure they were in the room.

403

I remember telling them, you guys can leave, like you don't have to stay here.

404

And they would kind of like, not laugh at me, but I remember responses

like, we're good or like, we'll, we'll just be in the hall or don't worry.

405

Like you're not, you're not bothering us.

406

'cause I think.

407

I think I felt like I was making them do extra

work or felt like, Hey, you don't have to linger.

408

And they were like, we're not gonna go very

far away 'cause you're about to have this baby.

409

And so I think I kept telling them like, you can go away.

410

And they're like, well we can't really go that far away

'cause you might not realize it, but this baby's coming out.

411

And so there was this little interplay going on I think in the last,

you know, half hour of time, of me trying to release them and them.

412

Not really wanting to be released.

413

So they weren't bugging me.

414

I just remember like, feeling bad for them or something, which is stupid.

415

Anyways, they were very close by when my water broke

or they were in the room or at the doorway or whatever.

416

And so they came in because there was this like, okay, it's time.

417

And so I got in the bed by choice.

418

I, that's where I wanted to be.

419

I like delivering right there.

420

I like.

421

The way it feels.

422

I like how strong I feel.

423

And I like getting baby to my chest, like right through my leg.

424

I just feel like it's just, I like it.

425

I like it so I don't have to justify it.

426

I like delivering it on my back and it was immediate, like the

very next contraction, like pushing bodies, pushing, I'm pushing.

427

There was no hesitation.

428

I remember that feeling of fullness again that I described to

you guys in that first birth story in the first episode, but it.

429

The first time it scared me and I thought, oh hell no.

430

Like I'm not doing this.

431

And this time I remember it was like, sh shoot.

432

Like there it is again.

433

I don't wanna do this, but I'm going to do this because I know

you don't like, I know you don't get to back away from this.

434

so I actually, I remember pushing and.

435

Pushed to like half of the crown or however you wanna say that.

436

Like the head is out.

437

And basically I was sitting in the ring of fire, and I did not feel it.

438

And maybe you're like, Nope, you're lying.

439

But I did not feel it.

440

And there's some cool stuff out there that says like.

441

When the baby's head is stretching those tissues, like you do actually hit

a point where there's some, like some different stuff going on, and the

stretch is so big that it almost is like anesthesia, like your body's own

anesthesia is like being released or however you wanna say that, like your.

442

You are you, you might actually not feel it because of these little mechanisms

that kick in and I don't know that that's actually always true for everyone

or maybe we just like blow past that point really quickly so we don't notice.

443

But this was the birth where it was absolutely true for me.

444

I sat there unmedicated with a head half out and just sat there and I remember

looking at the midwife and said, do I need to wait for another contraction?

445

Or should I just like go ahead and finish pushing.

446

And I remember her kind of laughing, like, whatever you want, it's up to you.

447

You can wait or you can go ahead and push.

448

Like good job.

449

Essentially.

450

I think she's like, good job.

451

You've already sat here, like you've, the tissues have stretched.

452

Like you're doing great.

453

Do what you want.

454

And so I went ahead and just pushed to finish and get the rest of the

head out and then shoulders and all of that delivered really easily.

455

And.

456

I mean that that was that my husband got to deliver this baby fully.

457

If you remember from the first episode, I would not let him leave my side 'cause

he was holding a leg and I just thought like, you can't move in that moment.

458

But this time we did a better job.

459

And so they had already gotten Kelvin gotten him ready to deliver.

460

And so he, the midwife was just standing like behind

him or behind his shoulder and he actually caught baby.

461

And so went ahead and pushed and delivered and he was able to.

462

Call out that it was a girl, it was our second girl, and then he handed her to me.

463

It was 5:26 AM and so essentially it had been four hours from the four hours

and four minutes from the moment that first contraction woke me up until.

464

The moment she was on my chest.

465

So a very quick tidy kind of textbook.

466

Second labor for sure.

467

In my immediate postpartum, I remember a couple of things.

468

One, the meconium was like zero issue.

469

She came out.

470

Pink and eight, nine Apgars and all the things like, she just, she did great.

471

So that was nice.

472

The NNP and the nursery team, they kind of were like, cool, we're out.

473

And so there was no issue there with that.

474

I remember a little bit of the, not shock of having another

girl, but just that those like, okay, you ready to be a girl?

475

Mom, you ready to be a girl dad?

476

Like now we have these two little girls.

477

And then I remember some feelings, of course, of just my mom and.

478

Like, it brings it to the forefront pretty quickly, I think when

you have kids, and you go through these really intense moments after

you've lost somebody who would normally be a part of 'em or be there.

479

And so there was definitely that like, whew, just like rushed in really

quickly of like, okay, like I gotta do this without her and she should be here.

480

And so there was a lot of that that came in really quickly as well.

481

I will say.

482

Kinda go back to that IV conversation we had.

483

My placenta, I can't remember if it delivered quickly or not, but I wasn't, I was leading

more than I should have been or more than what we would prefer, I'll say after birth.

484

And so.

485

We did get to a point, we didn't do anything immediately right away and placenta

delivered and all of that, but in the checks to follow birth, kinda those immediate ones.

486

Once the provider was done, I had not, torn or I had, I didn't need any sort of

stitches for that delivery, and so everyone kind of cleaned up and it was all.

487

You know, in theory over pretty fast.

488

And as the nurse continued to check my uterus and check

my bleeding, my bleeding just wasn't getting better.

489

And so we did end up throwing in an iv, and so I got one postpartum.

490

But again, it was like, that's okay.

491

Like we said, if we need it, we need it and we'll put it in.

492

'cause I'd had the, IM.

493

Pitocin, which you can have intramuscular pitocin after birth

if you do not have an IV N to receive pitocin after birth.

494

And I'm open to that Pitocin.

495

I, am always open to the post birth Pitocin for myself and I'd

had a fast labor, which can actually be a potential risk for.

496

Having postpartum hemorrhage or extra postpartum bleeding,

but the em, Pitocin itself didn't seem to be enough.

497

And so we put in an IV and actually ended up doing some IV pitocin as well.

498

that kind of like rectified or helped resolve my bleeding and get me back to

a place I think that both the nurse and honestly myself were comfortable with.

499

'cause I just was like, I don't wanna mess around with bleeding right now.

500

I just had a great birth like.

501

You can gimme the meds, you can gimme the iv.

502

I am, yeah.

503

I, I'm good with this plan of care.

504

And so that was kind of the only little hiccup in the immediate postpartum.

505

And then Kel and I just did the things right.

506

When you have a new baby, I think it's so fun to deliver where.

507

I worked, and where I knew everyone, like it was just so sweet to have those people

come around me, especially because now I was truly delivering without my mom at all.

508

Right.

509

Not even a phone call away.

510

And so just to have all these women in and out and men too, we had a

few men on the unit and anesthesiologists and stuff, but coming in and

out, congratulating us and thank, and you know, just loving on us and

being excited for us was pretty, pretty special and pretty, I think.

511

Necessary or like kind of a, my sister calls them, God nods, but like to me it felt

like a God nod of like, Hey, you need this because of what you're going through.

512

So it's all worked out in the background so that you have what

you need, even though you don't have your mom with you anymore.

513

The other thing that I love.

514

Thinking about with this birth too is kind of reflecting back and I

don't need to like go over this again 'cause I know I already told you,

but just the trust that I felt like was there from the moment I walked

in, feeling really trusted by my nurse, trusted by the people around us.

515

That idea of being left alone to labor and make decisions.

516

But every I, I felt very sure that everyone knew, Hey, I, we know where she's at.

517

We know what she's doing.

518

Nobody needs to panic.

519

Like she's just having a baby.

520

And, and that's a good thing.

521

And, and we trust, we trust that and, respect the kind of, respect that process.

522

And so it, I felt that as a. As a laboring woman for sure.

523

And so that meant a lot to me.

524

It continues to mean a lot to me, and I think it's a lot, it's one of the reasons

I continue to, to teach and try and talk to you guys about how, what can you

do to try to cultivate this in your own space because it means so much when you

feel this way in front of your care providers and and with your care providers.

525

And now that I've gotten to experience it

multiple times, it just became more and more true.

526

Like, gosh, everybody should feel this way.

527

What can we do?

528

What can we teach?

529

How can we prep people for them to feel that way?

530

And so that definitely trickles into the education and stuff that

I do now, or the way that I teach in my birth course is like, Ugh.

531

I want you to feel this confident in what's going on, and I want

you to know how to surround yourself with people who can join

you in that instead of, you know, kind of be a hindrance to that.

532

All right, you guys, I didn't talk about postpartum.

533

As much with my first, or it became a, a, a lot of what was going

on in terms of, you know, losing my mom and walking through that.

534

But I wanna touch on a couple stuff for this second postpartum as well.

535

I think one, I had like a second one to compare now to a first one.

536

So I think we all kind of can.

537

C not necessarily, it's not a privilege to be able to compare the

two, but when you have two experiences or three, or four or five or

whatever, it's, it's a lot easier to kind of talk about them and say

like, oh, this, this was different, or this was an indication that.

538

You know, X, Y, Z wasn't normal.

539

So my first one, my first postpartum experience, despite

losing my mom, was otherwise very normal and very good.

540

And I think maybe going back to the idea of God, not that was,

that was a, a thing that I needed to be able to kind of survive

that period is to have a postpartum that maybe was otherwise not.

541

Super challenged, because I needed to be able

to walk through what was going on with my mom.

542

This one was a different story in a couple of different ways.

543

I will say breastfeeding again was the goal it got off to a really good start.

544

I felt like I had some of that second time wisdom I keep talking

about and was able to pull that forward and use that with this baby

to get right on track pretty quickly and, and again, almost, and.

545

Surprise, like almost surprise or thanks body again.

546

But I, I don't know how my body did it.

547

But I made the milk she needed and I, myself, I

would say was still not physically really well.

548

I had the baby.

549

We did a beautiful job together.

550

My body did a good job, and then I like lost weight again really quickly,

was still under a lot of stress, walking through a lot of grief, and,

and despite all of that physically, breastfeeding went, was going well,

like my milk supply was doing well or we were doing well with that.

551

Like that was not.

552

A significant challenge.

553

What I did run into with breastfeeding is dysphoric milk ejection reflex.

554

And I'm not gonna give you the whole story because I

actually have a podcast episode about that as well.

555

So you go, can go back and listen to that.

556

I'll link in the show notes, but it's episode four, but I ran into this.

557

Scenario about six or seven weeks postpartum.

558

I can't remember exactly what I share about in episode four, but essentially

I like hated breastfeeding and I felt sad and nauseous and homesick and

I would cry and I just like felt like I was in all this grief again.

559

And it was really specific to when I was breastfeeding

and I didn't know why I was feeling this way.

560

I didn't even recognize it.

561

My husband Kel recognized it and was like.

562

There's what's wrong?

563

Like, why are you acting this way?

564

And it turns out through a lot of, self digging and discovery and my own research, that

I had this condition called dysphoric milk, ejection reflex, otherwise known as demer.

565

That's the most common acronym and how we speak about it most often.

566

And so that then was something that I'm gonna say plagued me my.

567

Entire breastfeeding journey because it was kind of like a plague.

568

And my, my spot on that demer spectrum meant

that I felt it, my entire breastfeeding journey.

569

Because I was in such a bad place emotionally still, from still

just walking through, losing my mom and the repercussions of that.

570

Yeah, I had what I would say is pretty significant deemer throughout, and

the feelings associated with it were, were complicated and messy, and.

571

Unfortunate, I guess, if you will.

572

So that was one really hard piece of my postpartum with baby girl.

573

And then the second one was one that took me a lot longer

to realize, but you'll probably be like, well, duh low.

574

Of course this was going on, but I ended up being diagnosed or.

575

Like figuring out that I had significant postpartum anxiety and

I like sharing about it because I was maybe a lot like you or

maybe like you were prior and that I did the, put my head down.

576

I'm okay.

577

Like I'm, there's not, this isn't a big deal.

578

Like this is just normal for a really long time, for way too long.

579

But I think that I had been, I was tangled up in like.

580

I'm going through a lot right now.

581

Like my life just kind of fell apart right now, and now I

have two under two, so I'm tired, and of course I'm sad a lot.

582

And of course I'm anxious, like I just walked through some really hard things and so

I, I was really good at explaining it away and I also was really good at presenting.

583

A face to the world that was doing well.

584

Like there were a lot of like, man, for all that you've

been through, like, you guys seem like you're doing great.

585

And instead of maybe using those conversations as a place

to say, you know what, I actually don't, don't know if I am.

586

Or like, can we talk about this more?

587

I. My response was typically, yeah, we're doing great and like not

really letting people in or sharing the full scope of what was going on.

588

And so my anxiety presented as anxiety about my own health,

which I think that I had also thought like postpartum anxiety.

589

I. Can be more centered around the baby and like something bad happening to them

and or like, the intrusive thoughts that can come in with, with those scenarios.

590

so maybe I had a little bit of, I was misinformed too,

about like postpartum anxiety isn't just a specific.

591

Thing, it's just this anxiety, like if you are anxious, whether that be about

yourself or your spouse or whatever, like that can be part of this spectrum.

592

And so I ended up with like significant headaches.

593

I ended up spending some time with an ENT 'cause

I thought maybe this is like, I have some.

594

TMJ issues.

595

So I thought, okay, I'm clenching and I'm having headaches, and

I grab my teeth at night and I'm obviously under a lot of stress.

596

I saw my PCP and talked to them about some of this stuff.

597

And I will say eventually for me, my anxiety had spiraled

so much that I was having headaches, like nonstop every day.

598

And so I thought, what if there's something wrong with my head?

599

What is going on in there?

600

So then I'm anxious about my own health.

601

Like what if I have a brain tumor?

602

It sounds silly to say out loud, but I know I'm not alone in this.

603

And so I ended up having an MRI done for I think, peace of mind.

604

Like I don't know that my care provider really thought I needed it, but I was

so anxious about all of this stuff that I couldn't get past this part of it.

605

And so in the course of, I would say.

606

These months of kind of working through some of this, recognizing

that, hey, I'm not okay, this is way bigger than I thought it was.

607

We did start anti-anxiety meds as well.

608

The headaches continued and so I think there was this kind of cycle of,

but I'm still having headaches, so there must still be something going on.

609

And I mean, my MRI came back clear.

610

I'd been on the meds for a couple.

611

Months at that point as well.

612

'cause I started really realizing I wasn't okay about

seven or eight months postpartum, which is way too long.

613

You guys, I waited way too long, so don't be like me.

614

And then I wanna say that MRI was kind of at like the eight or

nine month mark and so eventually I just leveled out a little bit.

615

And I know that's like so anti-climactic, but all of

the things together, like knowing that I was okay.

616

In regards to headaches and then recognizing these are actually probably from stress

and anxiety and it's just so high that you like can't get out from underneath them.

617

And then having medication definitely, helped me as well.

618

Talking about it more recognizing like, I'm not okay.

619

I. It's okay to not be okay, but like, well, you really need to let people help you.

620

And that's kind of how I would say that first postpartum year kind of finished out.

621

So nothing like my,

622

first postpartum with my first baby because I

felt like there were a lot more complications.

623

But I would definitely say the two were very enmeshed together,

like kind of when I started this podcast and was saying like,

you gotta know all of this because it all bled into this story.

624

And so really, I would say like those two stories.

625

Together and the kind of those two postpartums were me in the midst of the

loss and the grief and the, and the moving onward after losing someone.

626

And I just happened to have like two babies in the middle of it.

627

So you threw all that postpartum stuff, the hormonal changes of

pregnancy and postpartum, it was messy and it was complicated.

628

And I think for a really long time.

629

Okay.

630

I'm probably gonna cry.

631

I felt really bad.

632

I have felt really bad and I try to talk myself away from this,

but I felt really bad for like the mother that my kids got in that

season and for the mother that my second baby got in that season.

633

Because in theory, like I.

634

She deserved better, but I also know that I did the best that

I could with what, what I had and what life had given me.

635

So, sorry guys.

636

I told you I would not be able to get through this one without crying.

637

So.

638

I think that I, I wanted to acknowledge that because I think sometimes

we all can have those feelings of like, oh, my kid deserves the mom.

639

I was with my fourth baby, but my first baby got like

the messy, chaotic, like, I don't know what I'm doing.

640

Anxious first time mom.

641

And we don't get to do that to ourselves.

642

Like our kids show up when they're supposed to show up, and

I know that, like I showed up the, the best that I could.

643

And I know that that's true of you guys too.

644

So.

645

That's my little reminder that if you ever feel that or you

feel that hangover like a postpartum or pregnancy season with

your baby and thinking that they deserve better, don't do that.

646

Okay.

647

We're gonna just like, we're gonna cut that off and we're not gonna live under that.

648

So, whoops.

649

Sorry.

650

My third apology, but let's move on from that.

651

That is.

652

Where I do wanna end with this second story though.

653

And I do hope, you know, like I will share my third birth story.

654

I'm gonna record that one soon.

655

And I think it's, it's a good piece to this

puzzle because it's just like a good reminder of.

656

Redemption and growth and that things will not always be the way that they are.

657

I loved being a mom of these two girls, and I, I did love having

two under two and I also was some of the hardest years of my life.

658

And so these were the years where I'm like, Hey, like I, I had, I had

to hold both and do both, and you know, in theory we always do, right?

659

But.

660

These were, these were some really dark, heavy ears.

661

And then I think my other births and my other postpartums, kind of

inject a lot of like, hope and redemption back into the stories too.

662

So if you're in one of those darker where you're like,

Ugh, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel fair.

663

I don't know that you have to have another baby to redeem whatever's going on.

664

But I think it's a good reminder that like the hope comes back and, and I will say.

665

My second baby was this ball of absolute joy.

666

My first baby was serious.

667

She still is.

668

And this second baby came along and we were like, who knew?

669

Like babies smiled this much and could be this

joyful and be, I don't know, she's just so outgoing.

670

She's down for everything.

671

She says yes to everything.

672

She thinks she can do anything, and it's so fun to

watch, she has been that way since the day she was born.

673

So.

674

I share that as well, just to say like, yes, I was not the version of myself.

675

I wish that she got during those years, but man,

she was the baby that I needed during those years.

676

So I don't know where you're at.

677

I don't know if this feels like such a downer to you, but I

do want you to hear all of those things right here at the end.

678

That we get the babies we need when we need them,

and that they show up when they need to show up.

679

And that you are absolutely doing the best you can in all of those seasons.

680

Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening to the Lo and Behold podcast.

681

I hope there was something for you in today's episode

that made you think, made you laugh or made you feel seen.

682

For show notes and links to the resources, freebies, or discount codes

mentioned in this episode, please head over to lo and behold podcast.com.

683

If you aren't following along yet, make sure to tap, subscribe,

or follow in your podcast app so we can keep hanging out together.

684

And if you haven't heard it yet today, you're doing a really good job.

685

A little reminder for you before you go, opinions shared by guests of this show are

their own, and do not always reflect those of myself and the Labor Mama platform.

686

Additionally, the information you hear on this podcast or that you

receive via any linked resources should not be considered medical advice.

687

Please see our full disclaimer at the link in your show notes.